Am I missing something here?
 

Last night in our game runners on 1st and 2nd, nobody out. Batter hits a pop up between home and 1st. No communication between defense, home plate umpire calls infield fly, ball hits 8 inches fair then rolls into foul territory before being touched by catcher. Home plate ump calls batter out! When asked why he stated fair ball. When asked how, it landed in fair territory. Very frustrating!
:confused:

Okay, and then you prostested his misapplication of the rules, right?

So what happened with the protest?

Batter is out if FAIR!!
 

This umpire is lost. This is a foul ball since it was never touched in fair territory. It would only be a infield fly rule if fair. It is just a foul ball strike.

That close to the line it should have been called "...if fair"

It wasn't fair -

I protested, probably a little more than I should have and a little longer than I should have. He just stood there, no comments, nothing. I pleaded with him to ask his partner for help with the rule 3 times before he finally went out. After they talked, he said the play and call stand. His partner did not help him in any way! I forgot to include, after all that, they awarded the runners second and third. Well of course the other coach lost it at that point! I know I crossed the line as far as what I said to the umpire, and should have been dumped, as well as the other coach after he said his piece as well. Just not a good night.

Just Curious
 

What level ball is this?

High School Soph.

Where the least experienced officials usually are assigned.

Keep your rule book handy.

Did you inform the umpires that you intended to officially protest the game? - or did you just argue/debate/question the call?


You don't know this as a fact. It's possible that the calling umpire refused to change his call after conferring with the other ump.

What was their rationale for awarding bases?

Assuming you are the manager? If true, the assistant has nothing to say. Period. As soon as the assistant got involved in the discussion you both should have been restricted to the bench. Of course, it's not likely that the umps know this rule either.

Our state does not allow protests, so that was not an issue. I have been told by other umpires that they are out there to get the calls right. Even if it means having to "eat crow". I can understand a judgment call being missed, but a blatant misinterpretation of a rule, not acceptable. The base umpire was the veteran of the two and left his partner out to dry. It is done and over with, I understand the lower level games get the less experienced, however there is still a need to be professional to know and apply the rules properly.

As Walt points out, a protest is not a matter of degree. A protest is an official lodging of a complaint that an official has misapplied the rules. The official and protesting coach should make a note of the game situation when the protest occurs, in case the protest is upheld and the game is to resume at that point on a later date.

That said, many states do not allow protests, including mine. Whatever the official says on the field, goes. That does not leave coaches without options: on the field, they can politely request that the officials confer and consult the rule book (unlikely). Afterward, they can explain to the assignor what happened and hope for a "teaching moment" between the assignor and official. In the worst cases, AD's can take a complaint to the state association.

veteran ≠ knowledgeable

veteran ≠ good

[QUOTE=mkuk;675893]

From your OP

How did the BU leave his partner out to dry?

How do you know that the veteran did not "chew" his partner out AFTER the game away from everybody?

The PU made the call NOT the BU. When the PU did confer with his partner you do not know what was said.

It's like this.

My partner the PU calls IF and the ball lands foul. My partner also calls the batter out.

Coach comes out and questions.

My partner says "Pete would do you have"

ME: I have a foul ball

Partner: Ok Pete but I am sticking with my call

ME: End of conversation because I am NOT going to get into a pi****g match with my partner on the field for all to see.

After the game is where we would have a SERIOUS discussion.

That's the problem when a state does not have protest procedures in place.

Pete Booth

Why did it bother you?
 

He told you the truth. I suppose it was the end of your story that is frustrating.

For whom the bell tolls
 

A classic power struggle! The great thing about all this is that while one coach is often on the receiving end of the wrong call, here both coaches were amused by the display of talent on the field. Ball/strike, fair/foul and safe/out are thoroughly tested inside the classroom before an umpire ever steps on the field.

"A FAIR BALL is a batted ball that settles on fair ground between home and first base, or between home and third base, or that...

Rule 2.00 (Fair Ball) Comment: If a fly ball lands in the infield between home and first base, or home and third base, and then bounces to foul territory without touching a player or umpire and before passing first or third base, it is a foul ball; or if ..."

A Similar Situation
 

At a game where I was a spectator, the wind was blowing strongly from home toward center field. IF situation; batter hits a pop "foul" directly behind the plate. It appeared that it would be well foul, but the wind blew it back toward the plate. The catcher over-ran his attempt to catch the ball. The ball fell several feet behind the plate in foul territory, and bounded untouched back into fair territory. The pitcher walked over and picked it up and got ready to throw the next pitch.

This is clearly a fair ball and an Infield Fly!! Would you have called it, or just let play continue?

Yes.

Not IFF, but is FAIR ball so play continues. Since pitcher has a live fair batted ball I am not going to let a pitch be thrown just yet. Wind is a factor in determining whether a fly ball is easily catchable with ordinary effort.

Although I agree in principle that wind is a factor in determining whether a fly ball is catchable with ordinary effort, IMO a fly ball that lands on or near the plate is catchable with ordinary effort.

So F2's mistake in overrunning it on this play is NOT a factor, and I'm getting the out for IFF.

Probably as I say "IFF, the batter's out," and point fair, F1 will figure out that he's holding a live, batted ball.

We will just have to disagree. If he overran a ball that first appeared to be well foul but landed near the plate that ball can't be caught with ordinary effort and thus not IFF.

Now a bunch of Chit is going to happen if the pitcher realizes he has a live ball and starts the front end of a triple play because none of the base runners advanced.

Which is exactly why you need to call the IFF.

I don't make up rules, or interpretations. A fly ball that is blown around by the wind, such that ordinary effort is not possible is not interpreted to be an IFF situation. The fact that Chit might happen afterward has no bearing.

I would agree with this. I disagree with your judgment, though.

How do you agree with "this" and disagree with my judgement? What is "this" in your mind and what is judgement you disagree with?

I disagree with your assertion that this is a ball not catchable with ordinary effort.

I agree that we do not call IFF based solely on the consequences of the play--but read on.

I feel in this case, a delayed IFF call is going to happen (after all, who's going to call it in the air on a foul pop behind the plate?) This is where the consequences come in--if there is a double or triple play, one is going to have to fix it. Absent those, there is no IFF fix necessary.

I called it last weekend on a similar play (with the "if fair" caveat) in an NCAA D-2 game. Coach was (gently) busting me over it, until I explained what could have happened had F2 not caught (or touched in foul territory) the ball.

The rule is to protect the offense. Go ahead and protect them.

Well, if the batter reaches first, you're going to have to fix that.

In Illinois I'd fill out a SAWA report - it's a special incident report that can be filled out online or in hard copy - and explain what happened. It gets sent to the Illinois High School Association, and the baseball guy there will contact the umpire and the school(s) involved and explain the correct ruling.
There is no formal "protest" in Illinois, but this is a way to make sure that same ruling does not happen again by that umpire crew as well as letting the schools involved know that there was a misapplication of a rule.

JJ