Strike/out signal
 

A young man who will be umpiring with my league is also working games for the
local high school association. I worked with him some on signals and pivot
yesterday. For his strike signal he had a point to the side. Since he was
turning his head to follow the point, and since he will be doing a lot of games
solo in that association, I suggested that he do a hammer signal for strike to
break the habit of looking to the side. So this means he has a hammer for
strike and out.

One of the critiques he got from the high school observer today is that his
strike and out signal are too much alike.

Is this a valid critique?

Rita

In a word, no.

I vote yes. Ask Doug Eddings.

Rita,

To each their own, but teaching the hammer won't help his head going away from where it should be. I am growing to dislike the hammer for strikes, esp. since SB has decreed that it is the only way to call a strike. Sometimes it will take getting burned on a play before people learn the proper way to see the game.

I am getting old I guess...

But that's just it: Eddings signaled the strike with an outstretched arm, and then signaled the out with the fist.

The problem with that play did NOT result from his strike signal looking like his out signal. The problem was that Eddings changed his mind about the call.

Now I gotta go video searching if I find some time 'cause I think the signals were very similar.

Memories play tricks on us all.

Eddings stuck his right arm out all the way (this was part of his normal swinging strike 3 mechanic actually) and then gave a hammer (still part of his normal strike 3 swinging strike mechanic). I remember because a couple of hitters before Pierzynski, Jermaine Dye struck out swinging on a pitch that was cleanly caught and Eddings gave the same mechanic as he did with AJ.

How does somone that ignorant get to be an obsever?

I hammer strikes. My outs are unmistakable from the standard strike hammer. Some of my partners point. None of them point the same way for a strike as an out. If the difference is unmistakable no problem. If they look the same I agree.

I don't know any partners who do not have an unmistakeable out signal regardless of hammer or point.

batter/batter-runner, catcher does not see the hammer or point anyway.

I used to point strikes and hammer my outs. Now I hammer both. Haven't had an issue with it. When I pointed, I didn't turn my head which is especially important when working 1-man. Whatever you teach him, teach him to pick one and stick with it. Mixing them up during the game is what confuses people.

Last year at my plate clinic, I did my strike three mechanic of a hammer-like thing to the side, while looking that direction. I was told by a trainer to not look away from the play or the field, in case something happens. I practiced it a few more times, and finally became comfortable with it in my second game of the year.

This year, I went to the plate clinic and did what I learned the year before. THE SAME TRAINER told me, "If you're going to hammer the third strike to the side, you have to look that direction. It looks stupid if you don't." I informed him that I was told last year to keep my head facing the field (I didn't inform him that HE was the one that told me). His response: "That person didn't know what he was talking about."

With that said, I changed my mechanic to take a step backward and hammer it toward the catcher. It keeps my eye on the play, and, to be frank, looks a lot better.

As for the OP, the observer's observation is crazy. The only way I can see a problem with it is if the kid isn't voicing his strikes and outs. In that case, a strike can look like an out. If that is the case, then the observer should have noted that instead of the mechanic: "Verbalize strikes and outs loud enough to be heard by the players." or something similar.

I once had to make a call of a steal of home racing in from C position, because I had a partner turn and step and point and bark out a strike, while the catcher made a lob throw back to the pitcher and R3 broke for home. He never even saw the play.

I like the hammer. It's natural. I also like paying attention to what's going on. And above all else, I like making my own calls on steals of home. (My strike call hammer is slightly different than my out call hammer.)

Valid critique for PU
 

Young ump may tend to be too tight.
Perhaps, a good rip or tear was required.
There is a huge difference in style points.

you may want to try this, i find it works really really well and i wish softball would get off their high pedestal and take a look at it too:

For called strikes 1 and 2 as well as check swing strikes, continue to hammer as usual (i use this as a "sell" strike signal)
called strike 3, whatever fancy thing you can come up with.

for swinging strikes 1 and 2, point to the side, right side for right handed batters, left side for lefty hitters. make sure nothing's happening on the bases when you turn.

in either case, if there's a runner stealing, just extend your right arm to the side while facing the pitcher so you can get into position wherever you need to be.

for swinging strike 3, if you have a D3K, yell out 'no catch' and give the safe signal while things go down. Otherwise, i like to pause for a while, let the batter leave the circle, and casually hammer to signal the out.

a lot of MLB umps have gone to the hammer for called strikes but still retain the point for swinging strikes. I like it too since I find turning to the side on called strikes to be a P.I.T.A. whereas i'm way more relaxed on swinging strikes and can more easily turn to the side there...


and btw, can someone explain why you never see any baseball umpire manual that says to point to the side for a strike? I think in the old days, all strikes were hammers as well and umps made calls really really fast until Doug Harvey came around and got them all to slow down their calls...

I don't think it matters an iota how you call strikes, provided your timing is good enough to know that something odd isn't going to happen when you turn your head to the side.

For most young umpires, this is a problem. I find it useful to teach the hammer to young umpires for this reason. As they get experience and develop solid timing and awareness, then they can feel free to do whatever they want.

Our association suggests that new umpires use the hammer. When I evaluate them and I see that the strike is very similar to their out signal, I usually suggest that they make a slight change. I suggest that the strike hammer be exaggerated more, bending the elbow from 90° to around 45°. then make the out signal (for the PU only) a little higher. this eliminates the similarities between the two and is very easy for the new umpire to change.

this is one of the beauties of baseball that i like, no one cares how you make your call as long as you can still be aware of what's going on and not be too much of the next ron luciano. i guess softball likes the hammer since the field is smaller and plays happen quicker, but most softball umpires make calls way too fast for my taste, and yet, the 60 foot version of baseball sees many umpires calling it the same style as the 90 foot game...slow and relaxed on routine calls, makes your sell outs more effective...

Really?? Just how in the heck did you come to that conclusion? You've never seen or worked with a baseball umpire with poor timing who makes their calls too quick? And I guess that if you happen to be an umpire who does both baseball and softball, your timing disappears when you step on a softball field.

+1.
Rita....nice job working with a young umpire and in making some suggestions based on the fact that they'll be working a lot of games solo.

On the "hammer/out signal" debate. I'd be curious to hear from any recent pro school or MLB camp attendees as to what they were taught regarding the hammer; and what if anything did the instructors have to say about a hammer strike call looking too much like an out call.

I point strikes and hammer outs. When I point strikes I do not turn my head away from "forward". Done it for years, and nobody has ever questioned if I was calling a strike or banging an out. Makes it really obvious on that swinging strike three in the dirt where the catcher tags the batter out.

JJ

+1. Exactly. If your timing is right, you want miss anything. Just don't turn your head with runners on. It's easy to do if your head is in the game.

IMO the only problem I might possible see for someone who does the hammer for strikes and outs (which I have been doing for 6 years) is a 3rd stike foul tip... But even then your first signal is the FT followed by , in my case, the hammer for the out...

Otherwise the hammer strike is used with the verbal called "strike" which is clearly different from the called "third stike out" (or should be). Although I seem to remember a MLB Ump who had the same signal for all 3 strikes?

The only inconsequential thing in this thread is your post. Begone, Troll!

To each his own as long as it works. I have looked to the side for my entire career with no problems.

Had college guys try and correct, but I never could get them to give me a valid reason why to change.

If there is a reason to be looking at the ball, I'm looking. If its a problem, the umpire will find out because coaches will be questioning it.

Thanks
David

With no runners on, I usually turn my head and point, keeping my eyes on the batter. With runners on, especially with a runner on third, I try to keep my head forward and/or look at the runner on 3B as I point. If it's a DK3, I point the strike, then give the safe signal. If the batter swung at the pitch, and it's caught, I simply hammer him out. Personally, I like the point for my strike call, and the hammer for my out call, there's no confusion IMHO that way. However YMMV.