"Doble" hit

[umpjim]

Around this neck of the woods that's what it is called and batter is out. Batter bunts or swings and ball goes down and pops up and hits the bat while the batter is in the box. OBR strict rule reading says he's out. FED says accidental contact is foul ball. My NCAA rule book reads like OBR but a video they put out says it's foul by rule. Having attended a clinic and gleaned wisdom from you all I have a foul ball.
I have the FED citation but does anybody have some officially written explanations of this rule other than the verbal stuff we are told in OBR or NCAA?
My fairly old PBUC was of no help. Also of no help was one or maybe two calls by MLB umpires in the postseason which actually called the batter out contrary to what I've been taught but correct by the strict reading of the rule.

PS: anybody got a link to the MLB calls that I'm talking about?

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Around this neck of the woods that's what it is called and batter is out. Batter bunts or swings and ball goes down and pops up and hits the bat while the batter is in the box. OBR strict rule reading says he's out. FED says accidental contact is foul ball. My NCAA rule book reads like OBR but a video they put out says it's foul by rule. Having attended a clinic and gleaned wisdom from you all I have a foul ball.
I have the FED citation but does anybody have some officially written explanations of this rule other than the verbal stuff we are told in OBR or NCAA?
My fairly old PBUC was of no help. Also of no help was one or maybe two calls by MLB umpires in the postseason which actually called the batter out contrary to what I've been taught but correct by the strict reading of the rule.

PS: anybody got a link to the MLB calls that I'm talking about?

NCAA rule is a Foul ball,not sure you told this bad info...

Foul Ball
SECTION 7. A foul ball is a legally batted ball that:

e. Hits the batter in the batter’s box, or hits the dirt or home plate and then
hits the batter or the bat, which is in the hand or hands of the batter,
while in the batter’s box; or

OBR rule..it is also a foul ball..
6.05h... should answer your question...

[UmpTTS43]

This rule was originally written when home plate and the batter's boxes were entirely in foul territory. When the playing field dimensions were changed to what we have now, home plate in fair and part of the batter's boxes in fair, the rule was never changed to reflect the field changes. The current interpretation for OBR is that the batter must have at least one foot on the ground, entirely out of the batter's box in order for this rule to be enforced.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Umpmazza

NCAA rule is a Foul ball,not sure you told this bad info...

Foul Ball
SECTION 7. A foul ball is a legally batted ball that:

e. Hits the batter in the batter’s box, or hits the dirt or home plate and then
hits the batter or the bat, which is in the hand or hands of the batter,
while in the batter’s box; or

OBR rule..it is also a foul ball..
6.05h... should answer your question...

He had it "wrong" because the NCAA just changed the wording. It's listed in the book as one on the major changes for 2009-10

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

The current interpretation for OBR is that the batter must have at least one foot on the ground, entirely out of the batter's box in order for this rule to be enforced.

In other words, the bat is part of the hands?

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Around this neck of the woods that's what it is called and batter is out. Batter bunts or swings and ball goes down and pops up and hits the bat while the batter is in the box. OBR strict rule reading says he's out. FED says accidental contact is foul ball. My NCAA rule book reads like OBR but a video they put out says it's foul by rule. Having attended a clinic and gleaned wisdom from you all I have a foul ball.
I have the FED citation but does anybody have some officially written explanations of this rule other than the verbal stuff we are told in OBR or NCAA?
My fairly old PBUC was of no help. Also of no help was one or maybe two calls by MLB umpires in the postseason which actually called the batter out contrary to what I've been taught but correct by the strict reading of the rule.

PS: anybody got a link to the MLB calls that I'm talking about?

I don't think hitting the ball twice is an automatic out in OBR. I'll try to find a citation...but I'm pretty sure it's not always an out. It might be an interpretation rather than a rule though.

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I don't think hitting the ball twice is an automatic out in OBR. I'll try to find a citation...but I'm pretty sure it's not always an out. It might be an interpretation rather than a rule though.

it's not look at rule 6.05h....

[johnnyg08]

You're right on 6.05h Umpmazza...

But the interp in MLBUM also states that "if a batted ball strikes a bat or part of a bat accidentally (no intent on part of the runner to interfere) in foul territory, is is a foul ball.

I guess I'm seeing 6.05h as a hitter taking two "swings" at a ball in fair territory.

If that's not right...please help me understand what this looks like on the field. I guess I've never called it and I don't think I've ever seen it either.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

You're right on 6.05h Umpmazza...

But the interp in MLBUM also states that "if a batted ball strikes a bat or part of a bat accidentally (no intent on part of the runner to interfere) in foul territory, is is a foul ball.

I guess I'm seeing 6.05h as a hitter taking two "swings" at a ball in fair territory.

If that's not right...please help me understand what this looks like on the field. I guess I've never called it and I don't think I've ever seen it either.

I think an example would be a bunt that goes straight down, then pops up and hits the bat while the batter is still squared up. I had this once and called it a foul ball. The batter was in completely in the box and never moved.

[TussAgee11]

Bat hitting ball twice is same interp as ball hitting batter. If batter is in box, he's okay, as long as contact was not intentional. You won't find it in the rulebook. As UmpTTS said, its just old language that never got changed when when the plate was moved into fair territory.

Barring anything intentional on the batter's part, its a foul ball unless a whole foot is outside the box.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Bat hitting ball twice is same interp as ball hitting batter. If batter is in box, he's okay, as long as contact was not intentional. You won't find it in the rulebook. As UmpTTS said, its just old language that never got changed when when the plate was moved into fair territory.

Barring anything intentional on the batter's part, its a foul ball unless a whole foot is outside the box.

In fact, the rulebook is susceptible to a contrary interpretation:

Originally Posted by OBR6.05(h)

A batter is out when -- (h) After hitting or bunting a fair ball, his bat hits the ball a second time in fair territory. . . . If the batter-runner drops his bat and the ball rolls against the bat in fair territory and, in the umpire's judgment, there was no intention to interfere with the course of the ball, the ball is alive and in play;

So this is another instance of the bare bones of the rule being fleshed out by authoritative interpretation. If the bat hits the ball (i.e., intentionally by a batter still in the box), batter is out; but if the ball hits the bat (no intent by batter and batter is still in the box), play on. This is kind of what the rule says for a dropped bat. And when batter leaves the box (one whole foot out of box), he and his undropped bat must avoid the ball (no intent required).