Infield Fly Enforcement
 

[This was touched upon in the dropped third strike thread but I didn't want to drift too far off.]

In that thread SanDiegoSteve said:

I'd say going back at least 8 years this concept has bothered me. Is it still the IF mechanic to enforce it even if the umpires mistakenly do not announce it?

johnny,

WTF are you talking about ?

What page of the "MLB manual" states that?

What "part" was added to what "rule"?

I agree with what Steve said that lapopez quoted. The players should know whether the conditions are in place for an IFF call - but, if it not obvious to everyone whether or not the ball could be caught with "ordinary effort" by an infielder, the umpire's judgement governs as to whether it is or is not an IFF.

And I call BS on your "cites".



JM

FED: The "infield fly" stands and the rest of the play is judged accordingly.

OBR: IF the defense gets zero or one outs on the play, the play stands. IF the defense gets two or three (yikes!) outs on the play, fix it.

Maybe it's in the FED book...there's something in there about the players being responsible for knowing the situation. Don't bust me up so bad...I didn't make a direct citation...but I do have those books that I do cite in my possession. relax. I'll edit my post to make it easier on you.

johnny,

Cite, please.

That was nothing, I assure you.

No, you made two half-assed, incorrect, vague references - as if you knew what they said.

That's great! Why don't you crack 'em open and find out what's inside?

I'm very relaxed, thank you. Your post could not have been easier to respond to. Nice edit.

My point is, that when you post unadulterated BS here, as if you knew what you were talking about, it defeats the whole purpose of this board.

If you were a newbie, you'd get a little slack. But you're not. You've been posting here for years, and I know from experience that you can do better. If you don't like being called on it for posting BS, then don't post BS. Leave making stuff up to the coaches.

JM

You're right, I could've done better. If I'm going to post things regarding rules, rule sets, etc...I should be more careful and be sure what I think I saw, is what I read. People come on here to get the right answer...not myth number 20546. Thanks for keeping me sharp. For the record...I have no idea where I read what I thought I read...I reconsulted J/R, MLBUM, OBR, Red book, FED rules, PBUC, and didn't see it in there. Maybe I should stop listening to the voices in my head. :-)

The cites in FED that require: "Both teams have the responsibilty to know when conditions exist for an infield fly." are casebook 10.2.3 sit F. (erroneously called) and 10.2.3 sit G. (not called).
Flipping pages to find that stuff is hard but using the find function on the downloaded rules makes it much easier.

Thank you. I knew it was in there somewhere. Yes, the searchable pdf's are the way to go.

could you provide a link for download of rules

Login here: NFHS | National Federation of State High School Associations if you have a login or pay the $20 and create a login.

Navigation to the rulebooks can be confusing but you start with Publications Library and go to rules information and then you will see available subcategories and baseball will be there. I could not paste that link.


The rule book and casebook can be downloaded to your computer but you can't copy and paste anything from them.

That is new this year. In the past you could copy and paste to your heart's content.

Oddly, some of the 2010 rule books for other sports still retain the full copy and paste functions. It makes me wonder if disabling the cut & paste functions for the baseball rule books was intentional or the accidental result of some random security setting when the books were posted.

I am able to copy and paste from my version.

Interesting. The above post wasn't the first one I've seen where someone said they could no longer copy from that PDF document.

I just went to the NFHS website and it wouldn't let me copy anything. Looking at the Adobe security settings, it's telling me the document cannot be copied, edited or printed.

Are you copying from this after dowloading it on your own computer or directly from the NFHS website?

I am saving a copy to my files and it works from there. I have not tried it actually running it from the website.

Okay- one more question!

Are you talking about the latest 2010 rule book on the NFHS site?

I just downloaded it to my hard drive, opened that saved file with Adobe, and it still says the file is copy protected.

"...I just downloaded it to my hard drive, opened that saved file with Adobe, and it still says the file is copy protected."

I also did the same a couple of weeks ago and now have copies of the Fed 2010 Rule Book and Case Book on my hard drive for quick viewing. However, copying and pasting from those copies is not available as (I believe) software is in place to prevent that. Yes, it would have been nice to have those features so that I could easily cite a rule or case verbatim in a post.

Oddly, the baseball books seem to be the only ones that do not allow copy & paste. Ever since they started putting these rule books on-line (has it been four or five years now?) they were always copyable. Not so for the 2010 edition.

The softball, basketball, football and soccer books all can be copied. This makes me wonder: If the security settings for the baseball books just happened to be that way by default when they were uploaded, and; If these were purposely posted with the security settings that way, what the reasoning for that would be.

Then again, rhyme and reason have not always been FED strong points.

As a side note, they are kind enough to include the Umpire Manual for the softball folks. I don't believe that they ever have included the Baseball Umpire Manual among the offerings. And for the people that always say the FED baseball umpire manual is a waste of paper, I'll point out that publishing it electronically would waste no paper!

True, but it's so bad it's even a waste of electrons. ;)

Copy paste is a nice feature...it's one of the benefits of having an electronic version. Odd that it doesn't work. In Adobe, I'm sure you're all selecting the cursor and not the hand tool to be able to select your text...that might be an issue

I'm using the cursor as the select tool. The text does become highlighted, but when you attempt to copy what's been selected, by right-clicking on the selected text, the menu that pops up doesn't even offer "copy" as an option.

The security settings on the document also say that the file cannot be copied.

Maybe you just happened to download the book before someone at NFHS changed the security settings.

Since I have had several members of my umpire association tell me that the 2010 FED test has been posted on-line (illegally), I can see why NFHS may be getting aggressive in protecting their copyrighted material.

(And, no, I do not know where on-line it is posted and I have not gone looking for it. But, yes, I have seen the entire test as I have already taken it.)

With today's technology, as long as they're still sending paper copies, "protecting" the test is tougher than ever. Personally, I guess I'm not seeing the big deal with the test being out there or the answers for that matter...anybody who's going to cheat on a rules test that we all should know is going to find a way to do it anyway...if they really want to prevent it, go after some of the "cheaters" and suspend their license for a season...the word will travel fast. Otherwise, FED shouldn't worry about something that nearly public domain in baseball america...as long as nobody is selling their material...let it ride.

FWIW I tried the softball version today and was able to copy...I didn't even try to right-click though, I just went to "Edit" and copy and it worked fine. What's up w/ baseball I wonder?

sorry for the multiple posts on this thread...don't mean to hijack so this will be my last one...but I was able to copy and paste from the baseball 2010 casebook on a version that I downloaded 2 minutes ago...so it is possible...not sure why I'm able to and not others?

And bandwidth.

To help in the copy/paste confusion: What version of Adobe Reader are you all using? I'm wondering if different versions are treating the file differently.