Jose Offerman punches Ump
 

Holy cow ...

YouTube - Trompon Jose Offerman

That stupid tool needs to spends some quality time in the cooler.

At least he didn't come out with a bat this time.....

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...ferman.533.jpg

CREW:
P- Jason Bradley (IL-MLB Callup #62)
1B-D.J. Reyburn (PCL-MLB Callup #70)
2B-Domingo Polenno
3B-Verman Mejia
RF-Santo Silvestre
LF-Ramon DeLosSantos

How do you go down from that?

He didn't even land it.

Unforgivable, but still a phantom punch. And I can't understand a word they're saying.

I think he lost his balance. Offerman threw a punch, though, so whether it landed or not is really not important. What a tool.

If a player, coach, or fan takes a swipe at me and even TOUCHES me, I'm going down. And I'm staying down until the ambulance arrives. He will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. There's no place is sports for assaulting officials, and going down certainly magnifies how serious the situation is.

JJ

Every league around the world needs to ban him from any form of participation.

I am in full agreement with all however this is NOT how you diffuse a situation, by locking you amrs together and trying to get into a butting contest with the manager.

NOT HANDLED WELL. He took a bad situation and made it worse.

No, it does not justify the HC's action but it is a perfect example on how NOT to handle a situation, way too aggressive.

?
 

I would like to hear the proper way to handle that situation, please

Especially, since you probably know all the details.

Simple ?
 

I saw the same video as everyone else BB22. It was stated that the umpire should not have crossed his arms like that and was way too aggressive. I just wanted to see what the proper way to handle that was

Agreed, obviously. (Thus my use of the word unforgivable)

Touché!

Couldn't be better stated.
Absolutely!! This guy caused this circus. A player or a coach or a manager must have his fire put out, not fueled by the umpire. Horrible job. H-O-R-R-I-B-L-E.

Again, of course, Offerman's [or anyone's] throwing of a punch at an umpire is unforgivable.
I would never go down in any situation that even resembled a brawl.

EVER!

The worst thing you could possibly do is go to the ground. You know the term, getting the $hit kicked out of you? That's how you get it done to you, by going down. You do everything humanly possible to stay up and move. Everything. Watch Ali again sometime, or Sugar Ray Leonard. The main focus is to make 'em miss and move away.

It's more important to avoid cracked ribs or a shattered jaw or a skull fracture than to exaggerate the impact of a minor blow so that the eventual punishment to your attacker is worse. That's a horrible instinct. Get over that fast.

You have no idea what may have been going on between Offerman and the umpires throughout the Dominican League playoffs, or throughout the winter league season. Reyburn (I'm guessing here) was the crew chief as he has several years at AAA, and was stepping in as a crew chief (or senior umpire) should, to help out Bradley, who just completed his first year at AAA. Also, keep in mind that winter ball in the Caribbean is a whole different animal that pro ball here in the states. You can take my word for this, or you can ask any past or present MiLB umpire who's worked down there.
So go easy here, and don't be so quick to be critical of how Reyburn handled himself.

Umps Quit
 

Locals will have to do rest of both series.

Umps leave DR after Offerman incident | MLB.com: News

DJ did his job as crew chief appropriately, as trained, and with restraint. He got in between his plate ump and the manager and folded his arms to keep the manager at a distance from his body and make himself less vulnerable to a bump or other contact.

Each year fewer MiLB umpires are willing to work winter ball in Latin America for fear of this kind of behavior and threats made off the field. Two umpires who have worked down south in the past have told me that except for games, they never left their hotel rooms out of such fear.

High school umpires have no business passing judgment on DJ in this incident.

Well, I don't have a grasp of winter ball in the Dominican. Nor, I'm certain, do very many of us.

However, a person in a position of authority over anything should not act in a way that is inflammatory in an already tense situation, and that's what that guy did. He had the authority, and he overstepped.

I'm from suburban L.A. We know all about out-of-control authority and guys who constantly overstep theirs. We have two large groups of those guys. One's called the LAPD, and the other's called the L.A. County Sheriffs.

Well put Ump153

I have a couple friend who in the past have been down there for winter ball and have said similar things. As far as how bad it can get.
Btw I enjoy watching DJ work when he gets called up to MLB

Again, the HC should have the book thrown at him, even charges filed.

I am also well aware, of where that game took place, which is even more surprising at the way it was handled, knowing the dungeon they were working in and it's reputation.

Again , and I mean this sincerly, there is NO justification for the HC, NONE. But, in my opinion, which may mean squat, the crew chief did not handle this correct. And for those that need instructions on how it could of been handled differently, spend 25 years officiating Ice Hockey and you will begin to understand.

You are entitled to your opinion, but, again, DJ did as he was trained to do, and in that time and place, it was appropriate. And if you need instructions as to why, receive the same training as he did, become a AAA MiLB umpire, and work in the Dominican League, and you will begin to understand.

I wouldn't second guess a trained hockey official doing what he was trained to do, and I won't second guess DJ doing what he was trained to do.

We are obviously seeing the video with different eyes and different backgrounds, but I really don't see all this agression some apparently do. I see far more protective stances than agressive stances by the crew chief.

Catcher was tossed
 

Play involving the catcher's ejection.

YouTube - jose offerman - lucha libre #2.flv

Ump 153...As your previous post...once again well put. Some guys just don't get it that when your in the Dominican umpiring you're "not in Kansas anymore."

Nice job 153

From MY experience, which is NOT in the Dominican Republic, I stand by my option to "go down and stay down". In 30+ years I've had my share of brawls to deal with, and have never been physically threatened where my safety was an issue (one of the benefits of living in the Midwest, I guess). In my judgement folks would be horrified seeing an umpire get knocked down, and that act would NOT escalate things. It would, however, yield much harsher penalties for the offender.

JJ

New Video
 

This one shows the ejection and that Jose DID make contact with the punch and that he moved to try to strike DJ while he was on the ground.

What a douche.

YouTube - Paulino expulsado antes del trompon de jose offerman

Do I hear at the end of the clip (around 0:37) the announcers saying "Mother Phoeking"?

For a nominal fee I'd be happy to translate the conversation for ya. :D

I am not just a high school umpire. As usual, we see another case of professional umpires who seem to do everything possible to fan the flames. Hands on hips. Two umpires on one person. Coach talking to one umpire and another umpire cuts in front and get's in his face to talk in an animated fashion. Walking TOWARDS the coach was talking in an animated fashion. Folding the arms.

Fail! But these are the kinds of things I see from MANY ex and current professional umpires, during pro, college, and high school games. I also see the situations almost ALWAYS blow up and turn into crapstorms.

This guy could have been dealt with much differently. There is NOTHING that could be discussed for THAT LONG on the field! PERIOD! By them even allowing the guy to carry on that long without ejecting him is a fail! Then to display all the aggresive behavior towards him.

"This is what I got coach". After you explain, it is OVER! There is nothing else to talk about. No further dialog is needed once he asks why and you explain. I tell them it is over. If they keep carrying on, I explain that I am going back to my position. If they are still there when I get to that position, they are gone. Eject if needed and TURN AWAY AND LET YOUR PARTNERS GET HIM OUT OF THE PARK! If he refused to go, get security to take care of it.

Wow. What video were you watching? DJ got between his partner and the manager as is supposed to. You can even see him trying to "shoo" away his partner. Jose was the agressive party, not DJ


I suppose that works in Midvale. I'll be sure to recommend it to DJ next time I see him.:rolleyes:

Well, I cannot comment about what works in Midvale. I DO however have a rather extensive background with arguing, both the way you see it done in this video, and the way I do it now. I can say with complete certainty that the way I do it now SETTLES DOWN the confrontation and avoids ejections. The way I used to handle it (like in the video) led to a lot of crapstorms (just like in the video).

I could care less if he handled it the way they are taught. They way they are taught doesn't seem to work so well eh? ;)

Oh, God. Another one of those.:rolleyes: Got your gi on?

Yes I can see just from this exchange how superior your technique is. Already I've stopped thinking of you as the complete fool you are.

Wow, you're right. You've difused everything.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Oops. Sorry, Sensei.

So there IS hope for you! ;)

See Piniella, Lou - Reference: YouTube - Lou's Meltdown at Wrigley
See Also Weaver, Earl - Reference: YouTube - Weaver and Haller

It really is that easy! I'm glad the method works all the time for you. Maybe you should train the MLB guys on how to do it.

OK...I'll repeat this once again to all of the "experts" who know just how they would handle themselves on the field when the s**t hits the fan in the Dominican.....you have no idea what has transpired over the length of the entire 50 game regular season or the 18 games in the round robin playoff format. D.J. did what he had to do, he did it when it needed to be done, in the manner he felt he needed to do it, and without hesitation. Also, keep this in mind, there was only one umpire who was going to have Bradley's back...and it wasn't any of the four "locals" who were on the crew.
Umpref....if you think your...."here's what I got coach" patter was going to work with Offerman....well you've been drinking too much of that Midvale Kool-Aid.

The American umpires have quit. Not sure how that will translate since this is the playoffs and how many are left in the umpire pool.

Time to take a break anyway. A long season awaits.

Some people, like one of this guy's defenders, seem to require experience under specific conditions and circumstances to gain any value from the experience.

Others, like you and me, require only life's general experiences to shape our approach to people in any situation---especially a tense one.

And we're not just high school umpires, nor do we call on only our umpiring skills and experience to manage people in tense situations. That's why we are successful in managing people on whatever level we work, and at whatever capacity in life.

I commend all of you who don't flaunt your lofty umpiring status. That's very classy. It applies to virtually every one of you who have climbed the ladder higher than many of the rest of us, but see no need to look down on anyone.

And those couple of you who do flaunt your status: well, it's not as lofty as you think.

Respectfully, if you believe the local umpires, who cannot leave the country as the Americans did, will take care of any Dominican manager, you are mistaken.

Further, if you believe the type of "security" at Dominican ballparks will assist American umpires, you are again mistaken.

You are assuming that whatever technique you use that works so well for you in the US will apply equally to the Dominican League, and, as in most cases where one assumes, you are mistaken.

This is not the first time American umpires were threatened, contacted the authorities, received no assistance, and left the country. The last time, I believe, was in 2006.

Umpiring in the DL is truly a different experience.

Buh - Bye
 

ESPN just reported Offerman was suspended for life in the Dominican......

Thanks for the support. ;)

Exactly my point. All this has been WELL known about this league for years. Then to go down there and think that the same tactics that work in minor and major league ball here was going to work there, welllll, it is just being very shortsighted or niave in my opinion. Or maybe an ego that needs tempering. JMO

So, we can see from this video that the technique of aggressive arguing, ganging up on the coach, putting your arms across your chest and "making a stand" in front of the coach really panned out pretty good!

Trust me, I have done every single mistake I witnessed in that video, and have had outcomes similar (I haven't been hit by a coach, but many years ago when I handled situations poorly like you see in that video, I was shoved several times).

I officiate any number of nationalities in baseball, soccer, basketball. The body language and verbal language used on players who cannot even speak much english that has PROVEN to be successful is universally accepted.

My experience with pro umpires has been that they mostly want to either be:

1 - Right
2 - "Send a message"
3 - Not have their "authority" questioned
4 - Can't seem to walk away from a jab at them

All very poor perceptions to give off via body language and in how to address somebody you should be having a discussion with, IF you have an eye towards keeping confrontations short and on topic.

It is behavior similar to many law enforcement officers. But, I won't go there. :)

Over the years, I have accumulated my share of "foes" on coaching staffs. But, I don't let the little stuff influence the big decision. As an ex major league indoor soccer referee used to teach to newer refs, "Set the bar high, but NAIL THEM when they go over it".

I have never seen where prolonged arguing with a known hot head has ever turned into a "good thing". So this guy has been taking jabs at them all game, series, season. Great. Was that game when the umps decided to "let him have it"? Great! Dump him quick and move on. :) Seriously. All's I seen on that video was prolong arguing with a LOT of posturing from the umps, and ganging up on a guys who was obviously pissed. In confrontation, the longer you allow it to go on, the better chance of a bad outcome for one or both parties. The idea is to get it over with quick.

Once I quit having to be "right", and quick worrying about having the last word, and needing to "get back" at coaches, and quit caring that they want to question my knowledge and/or authority, things got better on the field. I was able to go into "discussions" without emotion being displayed or heard in my choice of words. I can now get to the facts, listen to what they have to say, state what I "have", and if they haven't left yet, simply say "We are done here". If the coach decides to keep pursuing it after that, I eject. It is pretty simple. I also don't stick around after the ejection. I get away and will keep walking away until my partner(s) get them out of the park. I don't respond to obvious "bait" comments anymore. "When spear thrown at head, move head". ;) So, when the coach wants to say something like "That is the worst call I have ever seen". I stare at them and say "Ok" without as much as evening raising an eyebrow. I mean, I KNOW I have it right, so what do I care about his opinion? Even if it was a bad call, I certainly am not going to change it because he doesn't like it, and arguing with him about it isn't going to make the confrontation end quicker.

Isn't that the goal? To end the confrontation as quickly as possible on the field? I will use whatever tactic will diffuse the situation as quickly as possible, even if that means I have to "duck my head" a few times. The idea is to get an idea of what the coach is arguing about, address it, then get the game going again. If the coach does not have this same interest, then he OBVIOUSLY wants an ejection, and I grant him that quickly and I walk away.

Tell us, Sensei, where have you been successful in handling Jose Offerman, or any professional hothead with a record of violence for that matter? Oklahoma? Georgia? Illinois? Venezuela? Dominican Republic, Portland?

You are the one touting your successes. Give us specifics. DJ's record is open for review by all. Put yourself on equal footing. Tell us how you handled the brawling coaches at Linfield and George Fox.

Situations are handled different from high school, to college, to the pros. The pro game is a different animal, especially down there. So I wouldn't judge DJ and those guys till you have been in there shoes. That's how you would handle it and that's fine. They did what is expected of them.

I agree with ump 153

This is like having a telephone conversation with a deaf person.

Judging him and putting his actions in one specific incident under a microscope are vastly different.

Really? In that case I'll speak up and use shorter sentences so you can get it.

Oregon is not the Dominican Republic. Geoff Loomis is not Jose Offerman. You were not there.

Loud enough?

What is your point? I didn't NEED to be there. I got to watch it unfold before my eyes. I got to watch the umpire use aggressive posturing, gang up techniques, and down right challenging postures. I got to see umpires losing control by yelling back at the person yelling at them.

These are all bad ideas in ANY culture, ANY sport, and with ANY official!

Is it so hard to admit that professional umpires have a poor way of handling situations that usually lead to escalation? ;) Indeed, many amateur umpires do that same thing, and it usually leads to similar results.

Geoff Loomis is a pussycat! Scott Carnahan on the other hand! ;)

I should have said: "You were never there."

None of your training or experience has involved this situation. If you believe all situations can be handled alike, you are either naive or a fool.

Shortly after moving down here, I met a cop who works in South Central. During one conversation I mentioned "vebal judo". He said, "We have name for cops who use verbal judo around here...deceased."

Nothing works everytime, every place. That's my point. You have no knowledge, or experience that indicates what you think you would have done would have worked any better. That's my point. You are free to suggest that you would handled it differenty, but you are wrong in making any claims to success in a situation you did not handle. That is my point.

Stick to your pussycats.

I HAVE been in similar situations, with volatile people. Verbal Judo is ONE technique that works in many cases. But, just plain old common sense in how you present yourself works EVERYWHERE!

If you posture aggressively towards somebody who is already pissed, you increase the chances of escalating the situation MANY MORE TIMES than by using neutral body language. Also, shouting back at somebody shouting at you almost always cause them to shout back at you, instead of talking in normal tones.

Tell me, who was in control of that confrontation? ;) It CERTAINLY wasn't the umpires. IF the goal is to diffuse the situation, they didn't just about everything wrong in a visual sense. I bet a week's worth of game fee's that if we could hear the audio that these umps said at least a few things that only served to fan the flames.

I tamed my lions into pussycats. I took it upon myself to do so. ;)

Really? Tell us who, then. Name the individual who has attacked players with bats an punched umpires with whom you worked. Tell us the stadiums in foreign countries where you did not speak the language and were the security people wouldn't escort the home manager off the field.

You just cannot admit, as almost all of the rest of here will do willingly, that you have never been in the situation DJ found himself. And, as in Oregon, you are one of maybe two here who continues to insist that you can do something you've never had to do better than those who have.

You are in a very small minority in Portland who believe so.

Believe what you need to get you through the night. And post what you need to convince everyone how good you are. As I've said on the field, "we're just repeating ourselves, skip, time to move on."

I have been in that same situation. Can't hit back, can't understand a word of the language, and no security escort out of there. It was with my wife.

Idea for Umpref
 

First, thats some nice hate spewing towards pro Umpires. Two, get your facts straight before you rip some of the guys on here who have experience handling these kind of issues. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, But the fact is that handling arguements and ejections at the level that is involved here is not the same as in HS or youth ball. Add in the fact that these guys are working in a totally different enviroment than in Pro ball in the US. They have to have security just to do there job. Finally, the MGR involved here has a very well known history for losing control in these situations. Again, you are entitled to your opinion, but before you criticize this crew, take the time to see how things work at their level of baseball

"Hate spewing"???

You're not serious, are you?

Good Lord....

Did they kick you out as a moderator at the JJ HUddle site?

I like how these conversations always turn into the regulars on this site throwing insults at those they disagree with. LOL

You know your in a dungeon and you know the dragon has a heated temper, and you STILL insist on pis**ng him off.

This official may be experienced, but he still lacks wisdom.

Hmmm have you ever met DJ?? I have and I have to strongly disagree with you!! Pro ball is a completly different animal, let alone working in the Dominican. Do you honestly belive Verbal Judo would have worked on Earl Weaver? I don't, not even a little. In the video DJ crosses his arms to maintain his distance, then Offerman appears to bump him, then hits him. We don't know what was said, to me it looks like DJ is trying to do his job..correctly. I would go to war anyday with DJ. Offerman is just an idiot, unfortunately at DJ's expense.

No, I never met the fellow but, I am sure he is an excellent official and outstanding human being. As far as Offerman, a lifetime suspension for this scumbag was a light sentence. Criminal charges are more in line here.

Having said that, I still think for this incident , wisdom, could have been better applied.

A lifetime suspension in DR is probably shorter than Jim Valvano's lifetime contract at NCState.

Apples and oranges...
 

You mean like this one?

Those of you who confine his poor handling and inflaming of Offerman to a Dominican baseball situation and not a human relations situation are failing to understand how an inflamed human being should be handled.

And flopping on his @ss from a phantom punch in the middle of a brawl is part of handling it "near-perfectly"?? Wow! What would perfect handling be? He not only inflamed the situation, he subjected himself to a serious kicking by going down that way. It was borderline ridiculous.

I love that cool blue type by the way. Very soothing.

I did notice this morning that Offerman got the death penalty in the D.R.
He earned it.

JJ

If you watch the second video that was posted which was shot from a different angle, you will see that Jose made contact with DJ's chest with his hand and forearm, pushing DJ backwards.

Nothing phantom about it.

Excellent post and excellent explanation of the difference in mindset. However, you will find that there are a number of amatuers here that refuse to acknowledge the differences you point out between the progame and what they call. And some who will relunctantly accept the difference , will then blather on about how it shouldn't be different. (kind of like saying "yeah the sky is blue, but it really should be purple.")

Only in officiating have I run into so many amateurs who truly believe they are superior to the professionals of the trade.

All right, all right. I'll watch it and see.

It was still dangerous to go down like that from a shove or glance or whatever it was. And it was still unnecessary to inflame the situation rather than settle it. Those are my only points. He was too close and he was too aggressive and it blew up on him. He has a higher standard to uphold than any other participant and he didn't go about upholding it very expertly.

I'm sure he'll learn everything he needed to learn from this. He also helped a lot of umpires learn how not to go about defusing a potentially volatile ballplayer or manager.

Runem:

See what I mean?

Sorry to be unable to lend a perspective that the umpiring elite can't comprehend or digest. It's not that helpful to see things so narrowly and be so blindly loyal or biased toward all umpires. I'm just trying to give a broader perspective that might be helpful to the rest of us low-dwelling umpires.

Everybody else, see what I mean??

:p:p:p:p:p

Larry,

If you will read our posts with an open mind, you will see that most of us who understand why and support how DJ handled this situation have always acknowledged that it is because of the level and the personnel. We have never suggested that this was the universal model. We have never suggested that one apply this to amateur ball. We are not the ones who presented anything narrowly.

It is umpref and some others that have insisted that their method should be universal and apply to levels with which they are totally unfamiliar. It is umpref and a few others who suggest that what should be done in their amateur games should be done in all games.

lol...my first day to go through this site, and what do I find? A couple of self important "Professionals" talking down to us mortals...:cool: I knnow my 37 years of "High School" and College Umpire work sure can't stand up to you "Professionals". Guess I should have went for the Holy Grail of Class A or AA Baseball instead of working for a living?

As far as kissing butt with ADs and Coaches...you don't have a freaking clue. I might get Regional and State games in the Buckeye State, but it's never been because I kiss any arse....bank it!

Near-perfectly?

Maybe at the Pro level "near-perfect" is good enough but, for us low life simple minded "apple" amateur's, wellllll I myself, tend to strive for a level just higher than that. So please get off your high-horse.

Welcome to the site hoot. I'm sure we can learn a lot from your experience.

I must have missed something in this thread. I just re-read each post and I fail to find a single reference to a poster claiming to be a professional. What I see are a couple individuals familiar with why DJ handled the incident as he did suggesting that there are times things are appropriately handled differently in the pros. And I see some others who insist that they way they handle things in the amateurs is the way things should be handle in all of baseball.

I recognize that, at times, the goals are different in game management in pro ball and that consequently professional umpires may do things that amateur neither would, or should. This doesn't make either pro umpire or amateur umpire universally correct, but neither does it make either of them wrong at their particular level.

I'm sure you handle some things at the D-1 conference level differently than someone might at the 12 yr youth level. I believe the same applies to professional umpires handling things differently than how amateur umpires might.

I really don't believe either pro or amateur can claim a "one size fits all" approach.

Again, welcome to the site.

You understand why?

How?

Welcome aboard hootrgibson. Although, I can't shake the feeling we've met before.

As do the rest of us mere mortals you insist on insulting.

Duh. This is some special knowledge that only you and some select others here possess? Awfully full of yourself, aren't you?

I always feel like I need a shower after reading your posts.:rolleyes:

Not true, Steve. There are some who insist that how they would handle it as amatuers is how DJ should have handled it.

Anyone could understand Steve. Some have chosen not to.

I'll repeat for the final time. Those of us who believe DJ handled the situation appropriately for his level and circumstance have never argued that this would work at all levels. However, those who believe their approach is superior suggest it should be used at all levels.

Which side is really being intolerant?

And, I thought we had gotten beyond the insults, Steve.

It's just your blatant cockiness that fuels my distaste for most of your posts. You may not mean to, but somehow you come across as some big shot umpiring guru, or expert authority on the subject, and that you have a special understanding that the rest of us unwashed masses don't. I am sure I'm not alone on an island by saying this. Most people are just way too polite to say it to you. When people who freely speak their mind, like Larry or myself speak, we are speaking for others who just keep silent. I'm sure you're a great guy in real life, you just seem really cocky and condescending in many of your posts here.

And, yet, if you read this thread, it is Larry and his friend who profess that their answer is THE answer, while we others acknowledge that what we support has limited use. Interesting. I think you are looking at this with preconceived opinions, Steve.

I am not the one who has posted "You are no where near my level in baseball knowledge", "I am an expert in (insert your choice of hitting, pitching, history)", "I know what all ball players contribute to charity, but I can't reveal my source", ad nauseum. And I know you will not find a post in which I post of the level of ball I call.

And, considering the PM's I've received in the past two days, it's doubtful that Larry is speaking for very many.

But, perception is reality as they say, my friend. Please feel free to disregard any post I make and I will refrain from responding to you.

Enjoy.

Larry is the genuine article. You can choose to dismiss his long history involving the game of baseball, but having had a great many private conversations with him, I have found that he is not exaggerating, but in fact being modest in not revealing his sources. His posts come from a desire to share what he knows about certain baseball topics, and I've never seen him do it in a mean-spirited, condescending manner.

A review of your posts indicates...
 

Very condescending remark.

What background would that be? Do you have superior training than the rest of us? Doubtful.

Many of us so-called "high school" umpires have tons more "real life" umpiring (not to mention general baseball) experience than do most younger "5 weeks of pro school and a little bit of minor league baseball experience" have. You really can't believe that 5 years in the minors is more experienced than 25 or 30 years doing HS, college, and adult baseball, day in-day out.

God, how very condescending, not to mention rude.

Again, that phony-a$$ed superiority shines through like the sun.

Yes, it is very similar. Then he chose to shout it at you like you were a 5 year-old. Very classy.

Yeah, he doesn't have that "special" knowledge and training that you have, huh?

Sadly, that's the arrogant "pro umpire" stance. We're just a bunch of Charlies that don't know sh*t from shinola about umpiring. If we dare to disagree, we are spewing hate.

Remember, it's out of 154.

Very well stated.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Pot, meet kettle!

I can promise you. I'll be one of the silent polite ones. :cool:
I try to stick with what I am talking about and not the person I am talking to.

As for this topic, in general, I think Finnerty is right in that this is not how to handle a situation.

I think what happened is both were heated and DJ said the wrong thing(thinking he was dealing with a sane person but he was wrong). For MLB and maybe MiLB, this is fine b/c it is part of the show at that level. For this Dominican league, it was not apparently or at least DJ didn't realize how pathetic Offerman is.

If DJ could have kept his feet after the contact, he should have. He was lucky that others acted quickly to help prevent Offerman from doing any more damage. He didn't have to go down to get Offerman suspended. That should have come automatically.

It was wise of them to leave the tournament. Let the locals deal with that. I hope they find it very difficult to cover things properly and would come to value the American umpires and what they are doing more. I doubt it though.

Maybe DJ confused how to handle a MLB/MiLB manager with how to handle a non-MLB/MiLB manager. It is possible that he didn't realize the level he was dealing with and should have approached it differently. That is a possibility as well. DJ might have been in the wrong here or it is just an isolated incident in which he was dealing with a moron and didn't realize it.

Don't use quotes when you are making up what you're writing.

You have proven time and again where your level of knowledge of the game of baseball stops.

And just so you know, ballplayer is one word.

I was convinced of Finnerty's level of expertise when he argued endlessly that ejections were never necessary and how proud he was the he had never, in all his years, ejectected anyone. Then after a few months he, he flipped flopped 180 degrees.

Yes, he is certainly the genuine article.

SanDiegoSteve, you can stand up for anyone you want. But don't so readily dismiss those whose work you do not know.

Personally, I am suspicious of posters who fee the need to blow their own horns so loudly, but since I discovered the ignore feature, I am exposed to one fewer of those.

I flipped 180 degrees?

No, I ran a guy who tried to assault me when I confined him to the dugout. It happened to come a short time after the discussion you cite.

Isolated example that changed nothing in my approach, which has been uniformly successful since then. So, your overly simplistic summary is wrong.

Who's running the ...
 

Who is running the pool on how long this will go on and how much are the squares, I might buy a few.

Everyone should take something from this, I for one prayed that I never am on the field with an idiot like that when the cameras are rolling, b/c Youtube is bad and I would just as soon stay off of it.

As far as how DJ handled it, I have not disected the video, I saw it while running on the treadmill at the gym on ESPN. I support DJ b/c he is a friend, we went to umpire school together and got jobs together and now I work with him in the PCL a few times a year. He knows what he is doing and how to umpire.

I don't think he was over agressive, but if he was and he made a mistake then so what it happens. Let it go guys.

For the record, I support the guy as an umpire, and I assume he's a very good one, and a good person as you state.

I criticized his performance in an isolated incident, which was subject to our review because it was on video, as you mention. I had only his posturing and movements to go by, as everyone else who was confined to the video.

But you know, Durham, your defense of him is the most reasonable, coherent and acceptable of anyone's.

Defend the two?
 

Pro Guys, when one of your own screws the pooch, you just have to say it is wrong. Like it or not, keep quiet if you can't handle it. Two members of that crew didn't handle a situation very well. You saw nothing wrong in the video, really?

Why was the star catcher ejected? The party line states he was arguing balls and strikes. Not what I saw on video. That catcher was facing the pitcher six feet in front of the plate. Learn how to properly eject a guy. At least let the offender know he will not be ejected while his back is turned away from the umpire.

The only hate comments I see in this thread are directed toward the quality of the game down south. Bull hockey. The 2nd ump did a good job of separating his partner from the conflict. But it wasn't his boat to paddle either. So he caught the short end of the stick. He'll get over it and won't make the same mistakes the next time.

Neither ump handled the argument very well. JMOHO!

I never claimed my training was "better" than anyone else's. I have mentioned my extensive training, but so what? It's not the same thing. I have only mentioned these things when my ability was being called into question, not as the focus of every post. I state it only to establish my credentials, not to lord it over people.

The pitch was in the dirt, the catcher gave the PU the ball and decided to act like a Class 1 arsehole when he ignored the PU after he tried to give him the new ball back. He finally stood up and walked forward the 6 feet you referred to.

A copy of the home game then was appropriately awarded to said catcher.

Then again, maybe applying the principles of chapter 6 of Verbal Judo would have avoided this....

Can anyone summarize this 7 page thread for me in one sentence?

A waste of bandwidth.

I even did it in less than 5 words.

That's exactly right.

This 153 guy--the finest umpire of all of us--constantly places himself above virtually all others by degrading the work, status, or mere place in this world of many other umpires. He even takes citations of one's experience and distorts it into boasting, and then makes up boastful remarks and puts them into quotes, like they were ever said.

It's okay when someone is first enjoying familiarity with something, and then immediately portrays himself as an accomplished member of that field. People do it all the time. It's no surprise that this guy would do it also. But as we've seen time and time again, he'll condescend and degrade and disrespect until he runs out of words to misspell. Good heavens, this time he's even taken to starting another screen name character (runem) to ride the high horse with him and agree with everything he posts. That's where it gets a little ridiculous.

More than a just a couple qualified voices here have taken exception to the manner in which pros and 153 blindly support the mistakes of other professionals. It's a poor way to gain from those mistakes, but gaining isn't always the goal for some.

Kevin,

I know you are smart enough to ignore someone on the web that won't put their name to it. Have a great season and will see some of you at the clinic this weekend in LA.

... ;)

May have on the Internet, on some far away political blog...or sports blog. The real me was known to have lived in Upstate NY(Rome) in a world and time far away...but that was 1970-73 during my last days in the Air Force and the year after.

Thanks for the Welcome