LL Tournament Boot

[nickdangerME]

Did anyone else see the Ky / NY LL World Series game on TV yesterday? With 2 outs, F6 took at throw for a tag at 2B that clearly beat a sliding R1. U2 made the out call, and R1 and F6 began heading off to their respective dugouts. After two steps, F6 realized the ball was not in his glove and U2 saw the ball on the ground next to the bag. U2 immediately reversed his call and R1 scampered back to 2B. The Harlem rally stayed alive (though ultimately came to nothing).

The out was obviously booted and the reversal was correct, if embarrasing for U2. What was fascinating was that the KY manager was miked so we got the ensuing discussion. Here's my recollection:

U2 (before manager can speak): "Coach, I'm sorry. I blew the call and called the out too early. The throw beat the runner and the tag was down, but the runner was safe because his slide dislodged the ball."

Manager (searching for something to say): "But you called him out! The ball came out aftwards."

U2: "No coach, the runner was safe. The slide dislodged the ball. I blew the call by making it too early. I'm sorry."

The announcers, including a Major League player as color man, were impressed that U2 owned up to his mistake so promptly. They commended him and suggested that if more umps were willing to admit errors and correct an obviously bad call at all levels of the game, baseball would be better off and umpires would earn more respect.

It's a given that such a screw-up should not occur at this level, but it did and I think U2 handled the aftermath as well as anyone could. Any thoughts from those who watched it or on the merits of the commentators' observation that baseball and umpires at other levels would be better off if U2's approach was emulated more frequently?


Nick

[jicecone]

The player was safe and as much as I dislike the media, they are absolutely correct.

I guess the Texas pitcher from the other night would have liked a second opinion of the only base hit ?? of the game.

[greymule]

I guess the ump should have waited for the player to show him the ball, but what's the big deal? When I played and later coached, that kind of reversal never bothered me. Frankly, I've never had a problem with it as an ump, either. Everybody in the park could see the ball on the ground. How could the runner be anything but safe?

[Bfair]

Originally posted by jicecone
The player was safe and as much as I dislike the media, they are absolutely correct.

I guess the Texas pitcher from the other night would have liked a second opinion of the only base hit ?? of the game.

A call such as that of the hit in the Tx/Mo should not be changed. The official took his time with his call and saw all there was to see before making his judgment decision. He was in no way blocked out of any action of the play nor was there any "added information" to be provided that would have affected the outcome of the call. The only thing that could have been obtained on that call was a 2nd opinion, and that was unnecessary since the responsible official had the opinion that counted---that's why he is the responsible official for the call. His call was not an "obviously" blown call.

There's a difference between correcting an obviously blown call and trying to put a tough call up for committee vote.
The former is acceptable; the latter is not.



Just my opinion,

Freix


[Edited by Bfair on Aug 20th, 2002 at 03:05 AM]

[jicecone]

Agree 100% with you Freix, I was only making a statement that was probably true for that pitcher.

However it has always been interesting to watch the Series with amateur umpires. Dont get me wrong, I think it is good because they have been for the most part more than commensurable with the level of play. Regardless how that got there, (another thread). We all have that desire to be in that position. How each of us do our job when were there, is another thing that is of interest.

It is not always the things we know and do that is as interesting as the things we don't know and haven't done.

Just my two pennies.

[aceholleran]

Umpire in question is Dave Kudej (pronounced "Koo-DAY") from Shelton, CT, just one District away from me.

No, I'm not logrolling; he's not only a great guy, but a quality official. He went to FLA school (I forget whether Wendelstedt's or Brinkman's) -- and it's unusual to see him "double clutch."

I hate when such stuff happens, but I thought Dave handled it well. He had the dish on Tuesday for the Guam-Canada game, and I thought he did a sterling job.

But most of these guys stink. I have plenty of stuff to say about that; who'll start the thread?

Ace in CT

[Marty Rogers]

This "ball on the ground" play has happened to all of us.
"OUT!" oops, "SAFE!" This umpire handled it excellently.
There was no question that he had to change his call in order to get it right. Unfortunately, he rushed his call, and too bad it was on national television, but it would have been much worse if he had not changed it. Also, he did it immediately, on his own, before he got any input from anyone else. In the end, he got it right, took some heat, explained it well, and it basically was a non-issue.
I respected him as a good umpire as soon as the dust settled and it was all over.

[Tim C]

Marty:

Don't include me. I have never had that play happen to me.

"Many of us have had . . . " would have been more apporpriate.

[jicecone]

“But most of these guys stink. I have plenty of stuff to say about that; who'll start the thread?”

Ace, You may be 100% right or wrong, but the fact remains, that they are there and your not. Right now they are the best umpires in the LL WS and thereÂ’s nothing you and I can do about it.

Wait a minute, maybe there is. They got there, why canÂ’t you?

I would love to officiate one of those games however, I donÂ’t know the people to contact and of all the things I would love to do, this doesnÂ’t rank as high as other things on the list. Many times IÂ’ve hear criticisms of officials doing an important event, (and I'm just as much at fault), by officials not doing it. In most cases it just turns out to be jealousy.

All I can say if you do enough games, sooner or later you will get a chance at an important event and savor the moment. Of course, later, may be sooner than sooner, in some organizations. I think they call that politics????

PS: I didn't want to take the honor away from you from starting you own thread.

[BJ Moose]

Me neither, never happened.

Hey, how can I strive for 100% when I am already there? Mmm?

Originally posted by Tim C
Marty:

Don't include me. I have never had that play happen to me.

[Marty Rogers]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tim C
[B]Marty:

Don't include me. I have never had that play happen to me.

Sorry Tim and BJ, if I assumed that ALL umpires have made a mistake or two in their careers. The day I feel I am perfect, have nothing new to learn, am better than everyone else, and can't possibly improve, is the day I hang up my
blues for good (and my stripes).

[greymule]

The "ball on the ground" reversal embarrassment is actually something relatively new. Watch films of MLB games from the fifties and even well into the sixties, and you'll see many calls reversed. Back then, the custom was to call the play immediately, even instantly, and reverse it if the ball came out. In the 1964 series, there's an "out" call on a force at 2B as the ball thrown from Bobby Richardson touches Phil Linz's glove, followed by a "safe" call as Linz drops it. Ralph Houk did not come out and say, "But you called him out!"

In those days, the call we all saw in the Little League series would have been handled exactly the way umpire Kudej did handle it.

There was also no delay on balls and strikes. In many cases, you see the umpire's arm up as the ball is hitting the catcher's glove.

Other differences: the top of the strike zone was significantly higher, and checked swings were rarely called strikes, or even appealed by the defense, for that matter.