Running lane violation?
 

I'm wondering if anybody had any opinions about the controversial play that occurred in game #3 of the Rockies/Phillies NLDS series.

Here's the play:
Umps admit missed call on Utley hit | MLB.com: News

Of course, the controversy seemed to be whether the batted ball hit the batter while in the box (which it clearly did) -and- whether F3 had pulled his foot on the throw (not quite so clear).

But I was surprised there was no lane violation discussion. I know at the MLB level they are not very quick to call this, especially on margin throws.

What if this were a NFHS game. Would you have called it then? Do you think the ball needed to hit the runner to be a violation? In your opinion, was the throw off the mark because the runner was out of the lane? Or, was the runner out of the lane?

Just interested in some opinions on that play.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

Nope. The throw was not put there, IMO, because of the location of the runner.

I think it's unfortunate, but understood why the ball hitting Utley was missed. I also think Kulpa made a great call at first. Stop action, the foot was clearly off the bag and it was a result of moving for the throw, so why give anything there?

That can never be known with certainty - but I think the location of the runner very likely did have an effect on the throw. Even the announcers thought so - not that the announcers know everything.

Let me ask you this then: If you did think the runner affected the throw, would you have called a lane violation - keeping in mind the ball never struck the runner?

I agree - I think it is completely understandable that this was missed by the umpires. If you're not 100% sure, you have to assume that it did not hit the batter. In cases of uncertainty, that has to be the default call.

I've made several calls like that over the years where, in the back of my mind, I fully understood that I could have been wrong. But I simply didn't see it and my partner didn't either. And that's usually what I have to tell the coach when he comes out to complain. I don't tell him that it didn't hit the batter, I simply say I didn't see the ball hit the batter.

What else can you do?

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

My memory is the book says the lane violation has to do with opportunity to "catch" or receive the throw. Not throw it.

Did you see a running lane violation on this play?

By MLB standards, I would have to say NO.

By NFHS standards, I would say YES. However, I'm going to have to recheck the most recent NFHS interpretations as they have waivered over the years on this issue.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

The action of the batter easily disguised the ball touching his leg. It happens.

No running lane violation. The runner did not, IMO, affect F3's ability to receive the throw.

R3 definitely off the bag. Good "safe" call.

There's two parts to successfully receiving a throw as a first baseman:
1) actually catching the ball, and
2) doing so in a manner to be able to keep your foot on the bag.

I think an argument could be made that the reason F3 wasn't able to keep his foot on the bag was because of the throw. And - the reason the throw was of poor quality was because of F1's attempt to get the ball around the runner who was in-the-way and out-of-the-lane.

I'm just playing Devil's Advocate. Like I said, I fully realize that this is a very rare call at the MLB level and that it usually requires something egregious.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

The quality of the throw is not protected. The rule was devised when the foul line split the bag. It is intended still to protect F3's catch of the ball.

If the throw had been on line, then the B/R would have interfered with the catch. Not the case here.

No, I don't. As he entered the 45' line, it looks like he has one foot outside the line before the throw. After that he is within the line on every step, so no, no lane violation. On the line is within the lane. Street tried to go outside with his throw, but had very little time to gain any kind of an angle for the throw, throwing over the runner. Even if he had hit him in the back, at the time of the throw/impact, it looks like he would have been within the lane.

OBR 6.05(k): A batter is out when . . . he runs outside [the running lane] and . . . interferes with the fielder taking the throw at first base.

NFHS 8-4-1-g: The batter-runner is out when he runs outside the three-foot running lane . . ., while the ball is being fielded or thrown to first base; or 1. This infraction is ignored . . . if the act does not interfere with a fielder or a throw.

BRD 273 says that the runner may not interfere by crashing the fielder at first. It also says that all codes hold that the batterrunner is not inside the lane if either foot is outside the lane.

So here, let's say the umpire adjudges that it was a quality throw because it could be caught within reach of the bag, and that the fielder pulled his foot in order to avoid a collision with the rogue batter-runner. Must the fielder take the hit? Does the neighborhood play concept apply?

I don't believe the "neighborhood play" has ever applied to first base, at lease not by professional umpires and trained amateur umpires.

If the runner doesn't interfere, how could you call interference? I don't know of an "anticipated interference rule" or any interp that follows a "runner would of if the fielder wouldn't of."

Running lane violation????
 

:confused:
If the 1st baseman had been on the foul side of first, the throw probably should have been easier for the ump to call?
If the pitcher had hit the runner in the back, the call should have been "OUT" for a running lane violation. As it happened, the batter/runner was not hit and the pitcher had to throw over top of the runner. Result: safe!
As far as the batter being hit in the knee with the ball, just one of those things NO ONE saw!:o
The best team won that night & that series.

Upon further review, I'd have to agree the batter-runner got back into the running lane by the time he and the throw got to first (and PU was checking it out) and that the throw caused the fielder, who was set up for a foul-side throw, to pull his foot. Good call, blue, and exciting baseball.

:confused:The series isn't over yet.

No violation in FED or OBR, that I can see. Had he been hit by the throw farther from 1b, say 5 or 10', I think we have RLV in both. Had he been hit as he stepped toward the bag with his last step, as the ball arrived, then NO RLV in either, since the bag is in fair territory and that is the one place he can be, to step on the bag. Since he was not hit, and fielder caught the ball, he did not interfere.

There is a FED interp that says if the fielder throws over F3 head due to runner out of running lane, then call RLV.

DG, the runner in this clip never left the running lane. Are you talking in general terms or refering to this clip?

45 FT Line
 

The interference talk here is a moot point. Utley was on the inside of the line . He was safe at first. As to calling interference, it is the PU's call.

If anything, running in fair territory actually helped F1's angle.

It certainly didn't hurt his throw. If he stops, plants, and fires, we may have something here.

By the time F3 was fielding, Utley was where he should have been, so no INT on that part of it.

I'm not so sure the foot was pulled, really hard to tell and that is a banger no doubt. A crappy play by the F1 if you ask me.

Well both I guess, I saw the clip and he never left the lane, but the throw arrived as he was stepping toward the bag with his last step, the thrown ball was caught, just not in time. If the ball hits him in the back here it does not matter. What is the difference between running in the running lane and stepping his last step to the bag and getting hit in the back vs. running entire distance out of lane and getting hit in the back on his last step?. Running out of the lane is nothing until the ball arrives and there is interference with fielder receiving. That the ball was caught proves no interference with the fielder receiving the throw.

Those of you who say you would call interference on this play if the throw hit the B/R, please explain the rule that allows you to make this call.

From the clip it appears that the throw came from a F1 who was on the move and in a very off balance position and I don't think position of the runner had anything to do with it being high. It was caught so not interference. Had he thrown it over F3's head it would still not be interference because it was not a quality throw. Had he hit him in the back while he was stepping to the bag no interference because he is allowed to be there for the last step.

I got nothing on the RLV question. Off his leg is a separate subject and I doubt any of us have not missed at least one of those.

I think you may be right. I looked at it again and I think he may have got back within in the lane in time.

But, as an academic exericise, let's say he did not.

Would you consider a lane violation in that case - even if the ball doesn't hit the batter-runner?

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

No, no interference because F3 caught the ball.

No interference on an avoid-collision theory, because that theory is not an accepted interpretation, as pointed out by Mr. Umpire back in post #12. Similar to a F6 who backs off a ground ball to avoid contact with a R2.

No neighborhood-play out call because the throw caused the pulled foot.

But I thought, contrary to Mr. Umpire, that the neighborhood-play theory could apply at first base, assuming a high-quality throw, in order to avoid F3's foot getting stepped on by BR. At the risk of hijacking the thread, can I get some yays or nays on this?

I will go with the nay on this one, no neighborhoods at 1b.

I suppose I could dream up a scenario where we have a qulaity throw to F3 and he pulls foot to avoid collision, but its one in a million.

So yay, we could have a neighborhood play at first, but nay 99.9% of the time.