Covering base with dirt
 

Hey guys, had a weird situation happen the other night, Let me know if I handled this right or not. It's High School Fall Ball, pretty good players,but just having fun at this stage of year. I've got the plate the first game, kid hits apparent triple, but can't find second base, so he stops to find it. Coach want 3rd for runner I tell him no he gets second but we'll try to keep bases wiped off better. 2nd game I'm in the field same team out in the field, batter doubles, I clean off base the very next pitch he steals, but its a foul ball, I point the kid back to second but second is no where to be found. I walk over and theres a 1/2 inch off dirt over the base I ask SS and 2b are you guys covering the base with dirt, they just laugh which tell me they are, so I say next runner who can't find 2nd I'm going to call obstruction. It did'nt happen anymore. My fellow umpires said I should have ran the kid, but I did'nt actually see them cover the base. What do you guys think?

Mike

No one else saw them doing it either? Not even R2 between the double and the foul ball?

It's unsporting and they could be ejected. In fall ball, I'd probably laugh along.

If anyone did see it no one said anything. I did laugh about it it was sorta funny. But I got to thinking what if this was in the regular season or maybe a big game.

Why eject anyone for covering the base? Just call everyone safe! They will get the idea sooner or later.

And where does the OP think he is going to find a rule to call obstruction for covering a base? Still trying to make up your own rules, Kleff?

Reminds me of what Jim Evans says about umpires who clean off the bases. Why would you want to do that? If nobody can see the base, they can't really argue with your safe/out calls!

Rule 2.00 OBSTRUCTION is the act of a fielder who, while not in possession of the ball and not in the act of fielding the ball, impedes the progress of any runner.

Did the fielders NOT impede the progress of the runner? I'm just sayin'...:)

And that's one of the reasons I think Evans is a pompous a$$!:)

I sure want the bases to look just like they do in the major leagues; clean and white. You think Evans ever let dirt pile up on the side of the base so a runner sliding in can shoot right over it? They don't let the dirt pile up on the bases in the pros, so why should we in our sandboxes we work in?

Not in my opinion! Remember, I am calling the runner safe. :rolleyes:

?
 

I don't understand how a runner would stop and not know where second base was?

This post just blows me away. Bases should, by rule, be a minimum of three inches thick. So maybe the bag is only two inches thick as it may be on some of the fields we work. Like, wouldn't there be a mound of dirt where the bag was? I'd really like to see someone cover a bag with dirt so I couldn't tell where it was. Maybe look under that four inch mound of dirt on an otherwise fairly flat infield. Preposterous!

I have never seen a pro umpire clean a base.

That's because they never get covered with dirt. If they did, they would call the grounds crew out to clean it. And the grounds crew changes the bases midway through every game, so they always are fresh and white. Plus, they don't play in sandboxes where the dirt piles up to start with. They play on manicured infield dirt that doesn't gather all over the bases. And I have seen MLB umpires kick dirt from in front of second base after a runner has slid in. Those guys want that edge of the base clean. Nobody wants to see the runner slide into a pile of dirt and not be touching the base.

I will kick a base, but I will never carry a brush to clean a base or the rubber. The softball guys tend to love to clean those all the time!!

I will also never work to fix a base or clean out the post, thats the home teams job, not mine.

You either don't understand humor or have never met Jim. Pompous? No. Opinionated? Yes. But unlike some who post here who claim to be experts on everything about umpiring, he can back it up. And he does so with humor and good natured self deprecation.

Yeah, well Evans must have forgotten what it's like to umpire on fields with tons of loose dirt that completely obliterates the bases.

Hey, I don't have to like the same people that anyone else does. Something, and I can't put my finger on it precisely, has always irritated me about him.

apparently, softball is really stuck up about image, which I don't really care for. I only brush the bases in SB when the supervisor's looking, though my laziness has taught me how to brush the dirt in one good foot swipe as I'm walking by the base. I much prefer baseball, the game is much more relaxed, and you can get away with pretty much any mechanic, though ron luciano stuff may be pushing it...

Again, the humor just escapes you.

He was JOKING. He wasn't serious. He was playing to his audience.

Wow.

Then why is there any discussion of whether or not to clean the bases? We should make sure they are visible and clean. Humor does not escape me, it just wasn't that funny. Wow yourself.

If the participants want them clean, then they can clean them. I don't (unless I'm using it as an opportunity to talk quietly the the runner and / or nearest fielders). And, that philosophy pre-dates any knowledge of Evans' opinion on this.

Hey guys, the current league I'm involved with has a serious dust and loose dirt issue. The bases are'nt exactly totally white when we start I would say antique white would be a little closer. The bases are the 3". But an off white base, loose dirt and a kid with a plan was the probelm! I just wonder in rule 2.00 would this be technically be considered obstruction? In my situation the other night I said that to the middle infield just to stop them from doing it, I just don't know If I could really call it.

Mike

~Sigh~
 

WOBW

Personally I do not beleive this is a serious thread.

Me too, me too.

And me too on this one, too.

You still don't get it.

"Why would you want to do that?" (serious)

"If nobody can see the base, they can't really argue with your safe/out calls!" (joke)

There is a discussion becuase some here apparently think they are responsible for groundskeeping, or they are confused with softball.

Umpires are not groundskeepers. Read Bob's post.

I don't know how serious the thread is, but it did happen! I have never had this happen before or have ever even heard of it happening before. Just wanting a little input on whether or not you could rule obstruction or not? I'm guessing not based on the actual obstruction rule. Just something weird hopefully a one time thing

I didn't ever say we were responsible for groundskeeping. Read my post. I said that in the pros, the bases are kept clean. In our games, there are no groundskeepers. I guess nobody here has to umpire in some of the sandpits I see here on a weekly bases, but trust me, we work without foul lines or any sort of field maintenance, so the bases get OBLITERATED, not just a little dusty. I will kick the dirt out from in front of second base after a runner packs a ton of dirt up against the edge. I do this after granting the runner time to brush the ton of dirt that got all over him when he slid.

That is all.

I agree with SandiegoSteve some of these fields are sandy/dusty just not the best baseball conditions. As far as foul lines go I constantly work with out them,when they do decide to put them down after their done you wish they had not! Fans may see chalk fly but the ball may still be a foot foul. Makes a thankless job even harder

Mike

I'm probably going to get reemed for this one but here goes. Since covering a base with dirt is technicaly not obstruction because of lack of physical contact and I'm sure covering a base with dirt to confuse base runners is not covered in any rule book. I still have to believe that is still somewhat illegal. Could you call obstruction then attempt back it up with 9.01 (c)??????

Mike

Kleff, no. In the case of players purposely covering a base with dirt, order them to stop. If they don't, eject them. Simple solution.

9.01 (c) is specifically for situations not covered by rule. Obstruction is covered by rule.

RPatrino has the best solution. Warn, then eject.

WHAT?!

Physical contact is not required.

2.00 OBSTRUCTION is the act of a fielder who, while not in possession of the ball and not in the act of fielding the ball, impedes the progress of any runner.

I think you should call OBS the very next time you see it, and report back to us how that went.

This is getting ridiculous. Now we are making up rules and using the moronic rule 9.01(c) to make it all right!

Why are you all trying to eject, or call obstruction? Just call the runner safe no matter what! When the DC comes out, you can quietly discuss what his players are doing and that if you cannot see the base, you cannot render anything but a safe call.

Better yet, stop officiating on the kiddie fields!

And when the defense goes to bat and that bag is still covered, they better step right in the middle of the bag and knock the dirt off on the way by, or they are "out" for not touching the bag.

imaginary lines=imaginary arguments

Yes, during ground rules I state that whatever we call for fair/foul is going to be the call and there will be no arguing. Works most of the time.:rolleyes:

Why would it be different if there were lines?

Exactly. If it's truly that close that you can't tell one way or another what's it matter?

Because with lines, they can come out and argue the call, and without them I will not accept a peep out of them.

IMO, either way it's arguing a judgment call. I'll treat them equally (that is, consider what they have to say, how they say it, other actions in the game, etc.)

Which is probably being taught to the kids BY the coach. Just as a good pitching coach will teach his pitcher's, especially lefty's how to balk in hopes you as an umpire don't know or recognize the move as a balk. Treat it as a vicinity play just as the rule book says for a dislodged base.

But normally we allow a brief discussion over a judgment call (other than ball/strike, of course). Safe/out is often argued, as is fair/foul. If not prolonged, profane, physical or personal, we allow a little venting and ranting before telling them that we've had enough. Without foul lines I allow ZERO discussion of fair/foul. It's what I say it is and they know better in advance than to question it.

Damn, SDS! You are starting to sound like me! :rolleyes: