7.05 (f) & (g) - ball dead or not??

[wpiced]

Recently, I was a base umpire for a 16U American League game. R1, and BR slugged a high, arching, fair ball down the first base line. It stayed fair but F9's glove deflected the ball into dead ball territory (dbt). Actually, the ball was deflected into a chain-link fence then rolled under it by about 6". It was retrievable, but none-the-less, dbt. I signaled and called out "dead ball, R1 and BR, take two bases." I sent R1 to third and BR to second. The offensive manager began to hemorrhage right there in the fist-base coach's box!

He said, "That aint no (sic) dead ball. Come on blue, get your head in the game!" I ask the skipper if his car was parked near by, because that's where he was going to spend the rest of the game if he didn't calm down. The game continued and the winning team won and the call make no difference in the final outcome. Whew!!

Later, I looked up 7.05 (f) and damned if it says absolutly nothing about the ball being dead! However, 7.05 (g) says a thrown ball into dbt is dead. Did I screw up? Maybe I should have set out the rest of that game in my car.

Will a few of you smarter guys help me understand?

[GarthB]

Now let me get this straight, coach...ball is deflected in dead ball territory and it's live? Say, how about a ball in foul territory; is it fair? Maybe a strike is a ball?

Who's got whose head where, coach?


Man, I thought I'd heard them all. Where do you get these guys, Wpiced?

[wpiced]

As it turns out Garth, this coach knows the OBRs as well as anyone, but that also means that he is pointing out the the OBR DOES NOT SAY THAT THE BALL IS DEAD in 7.05 (f)! One must ASSUME that 7.05 (f)is the same as (g).

Why do you suppose that the OBR fails to clarify the status of the ball in a uniform manner?

[GarthB]

Wpiced,

I dunno, why do you suppose the OBR still says a runner must run a straight line between bases? The book is full of editing errors that may never be fixed.

But as Young Frankenstein pointed out:

Dead is dead.

Either your coach isn't as smart as he seems, or he is just being an a$$."

[Rich Ives]

1) See the definition of FAIR TERRITORY in 2.00

2) See the definition of FOUL TERRITORY in 2.00

They define the parts of the playing field, and include the words "to the bottom of the playing field fence and perpendicularly upwards" and "to the fence and perpendicularly upwards."

In 7.05 f and g, the ball is no longer on the playing field, thus it is out of play.

[wpiced]

Rich, you have a valid observation. Now can you tell us why the OBR clearly states a 'dead ball' in (g) and clearly omits the status of the ball in (f)? Do you think that the mgr/fist base coach (in the original example) could have protested the game because I signaled the ball dead when I did not have the OBR to support my call? Or, Rich, how about me just making up a rule for 7.05 (f) and rely on 9.01 (c) to support my call.

If one were to follow this thread from the begining, one might get the impression that this is another suttle cry to revamp the OBRs.

[GarthB]

Marty,

You are thinking too much. The ball went into deadball territory. By rule it is out of play, it is dead. You have all you need.

No protest committee is going to hear a coach claim that a ball is live in deadball territory. You have let that idiot coach into your head.

Let's replay the incident:

Coach: Hey, Garth, that ball's still live.

Me: Excuse me coach? The ball is in dead ball territory, it is dead and bases will be awarded.

Coach: That ain't no deadball. C'mon blue get your head in the game.

Me: Coach, by rule that is a dead ball and you will now get back to your dugout before you have to get your head and every body part attached to it off the field and into the parking lot.