<i> Originally posted by Buckeye12 </i>

<b> I was asked to umpire a Little League tournament this weekend played under "Official Little League" rules. I told the tournament director that I was unfamiliar with these rules but he said that he will go over main points with me before the tournament begins. I was wondering if anyone could help me out with some of the differences between LL and FED rules. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. Thanks </b>

When you say LL you need to say which divisions of LL you are referring to.

As Rich Ives pointed out there are some <i> Special </i> rules in the 12 and under age groups that don't exist in the 13 and up groups. Also, the re-entry rule in regular season is vastly different from FED. In LL (regular season), the player re-entering doesn't have to bat in the same position in the order as he /she started.

Also, unlike HS in LL all KIDS must Play. The regular season mandatory play rule (MPR) is: 6 defensive outs AND 1 at bat. In tournament time it is 3 CONSECUTIVE defensive outs OR 1 at bat (either or).

This is a tough thread to answer without making it a thesis so I will try and summarize.

1. Find someone who is familiar with LL rules and <i> pick their brains </i>. LL has safety issues that do not exist in FED. Example; in LL whenever a child is warming up F1 they MUST have a cup, mask and throat protector. However , in FED as long as player is not squating that requirement is not necessary.

2. Once you know the LL safety rules and Special Rules, LL uses OBR. So now we need to compare OBR rules to FED which is no easy task.

Since you umpire using FED rules, you should have a FED Rule Book and at the end of the book, they have a quick reference called MAJOR RULE DIFFERENCIES.

That should give you a start. If you are going to umpire (and even if your not), leagues that use both OBR / FED you should purchase Carl Childress's book on Basic Rule Differencies (otherwise known as the BRD)

Good Luck!

Pete Booth

Garth B

You wrote:

<i>Now, follow me if you can, this is very simple:

LL has a choice, yes or no? Yes.

LL chooses a volunteer system, yes or no? Yes.

LL would choose a system they find inferior, yes or no? No

Ergo, LL, by its actions (choice) has determined that, for them, in their opinion, a volunteer umpiring system is superior.</i>

LL chose the system they PREFER, and which they believe best represents the purpose and objectives of LL. "Superior" umpires are not the objective. It is based on their objectives for the program, not to insure that the absolutely best calls are made in the games. The objectives are to exhibit the proper leadership, and to do it with personnel who are both volunteers and committed to Little League.

To quote from "The Umpire in Little League":

"To effectively penetrate all areas of league personnel and encourage better leadership, it is essential that the umpire, as well as manager and coach, participate in the same degree of volunteer service. The umpire cannot remain aloof from this aspect of the program. Payment for such services relegates the umpire to a category apart from all others who volunteer."

Tim C


No Logic???

In "justifying" your fees:

You maintained that coaches don't have expenses. I said they do and listed a few.

You said Mom doesn't have to buy the latest super-bat. I said umpires don't have to buy the latest super-protector as a counter-point.

In fact, the leagues in these parts provide equipment which make your 'required' equipment expense ZERO. Any additional expense is because you chose to get your own stuff, not because it was required by the league.

You noted having seven sets of uniforms. I countered that if the players can make it with one set, you should be able to also.

You noted that you go to umpire clinics. I countered that coaches go to coaching clinics and buy (expenses again) coaching books and videos. \

You brought up the old "hands part of the bat" BS. I countered that umpires go to rules clinics - coaches go to coaching clinics. Different jobs, different requirements, different clinics.

Per Rich: <b>"LL chose the system they PREFER, and which they believe best represents the purpose and objectives of LL."</b>

That's what I said. Agreement at last.

<b>"Superior" umpires are not the objective."</b>

Once again, I referred to the SYSTEM as being superior, (in the eyes of LL) not the individual umpires.

So in the end we agree, LL, by its choice and actions indicates that it conisders the volunteer system to be superior.

Wonderful.



[Edited by GarthB on Jul 22nd, 2002 at 04:03 PM]

Rich;

I am replying to your message to make a larger point with umpires generally.

I started out in umpiring by being a volunteer using volunteer equipment. I would like to suggest to umpires that they not use the equipment supplied by the leagues and instead buy their own gear.

I was regularly injured doing volunteer baseball with 13-15 years olds. Today, I have my own gear and umpire for 18-23 year olds and I am rarely injured. Some of that is due to the catchers but at least half of it is due to better gear. Volunteer groups don't provide cups; they don't provide steel shoes; and the gear rarely fits properly. All of things combine to vastly increase the rate of injuries to the volunteers.

I might further point out, that good equipment for 13-15 year old baseball is even more important than for NCAA ball. NCAA catchers usually stop the ball and the players don't ever release the bat back into you.

All of my umpire injuries that required medical attention occured while I was a volunteer using the league provided equipment. Your thesis, Rich is flat wrong. Umpires DO NEED the latest whiz bang gear. That gear is a whole lot cheaper than medical bills. All the combined price, for all the gear that I ever bought, cost less that fixing my broken foot from a foul ball of a 13 year old. Don't tell me about insurance. It does nothing to eliminate the pain.

Peter

Proper gear
 

I hear you, Peter. When I first starting doing LL games, I tried to use the gear provided by the league. It didn't fit properly, and often it wasn't even in the equipment shed. In addition, as you said, they didn't provide cups and steel-toed shoes. So, after one game where a fast-pitch softball pitcher hit my instep twice in a row in the same place, I went out and bought my own gear. Aside from the usual thigh shots, I only received one bruise the remainder of the season, and that was because my shoulder pad had slipped and I waited to re-adjust it.

One note: The hint about keeping the face mask a little looser that I learned on one of these boards (might have been here) probably saved my neck (literally) a couple of times, too.

Thanks, all!

Actually, just one important point. Little League recommends the use of volunteer umpires not for any financial reasons. It is for philisophical reasons.

Little League wants to remain true to its roots. Carl Stotz began Little League with just a few teams in Williamsport, PA, many moons ago. But he also had a community dedicated to volunteering to make that league successful.

Volunteering in LL is important because it shows the children of your community that you care about them and their future. Volunteering for your local LL allows you to touch the lives of the children from your community and have a hand in how they develop as citizens of this country. The idea is to help build a successful future for your community. What you put into your community, you will get back.

However, even LL has realized reality. Knowing that most people who would be willing to donate their time to umpire for their local LL simply cannot afford the outrageous costs of uniforms, equipment, and supplies. As a result, some leagues are simply strapped for volunteers. Which is why LL decided for this season to allow their insurance to cover even individuals paid by the league to umpire their games.

Excellent points, Peter.

I want to add that I know of three umpires within the last two seasons in my area who have suffered injuries in LL because they weren't wearing adequate equipment. In all three cases the injury was caused by the same thing - lack of plate shoes. Two of them had their toenails turned up, and the other broke a toe. In all three cases the injuries occurred in Little League Majors with 9-12 year olds.

Jim,

I don't disagree with your points from an intention perspective, but reality where we are is a little different. I agree that LL intends to use full volunteers for all positions, but in our league, we have had such a problem getting umpires for all of our games that we have had to consider bringing in paid umpires. Every time we look at it, the single reason why we don't do it is because it is cost prohibitive. Unlike a lot of leagues, we have to rent our facilities at a cost of 10K/year and throwing another 10K/year on top of that to pay for umpires is more than our budget can stand.

So while I agree that the intention is for volunteers, the reality of why we do not use paid umpires is because we cannot afford it without significantly increasing the cost per child to play.

David,

You're in the same boat as the leagues are in my district, nay - - my whole state. I'll be honest - I accept pay as a Little League umpire. Why? Because that's how it works here and has for more than two decades. Leagues in Rhode Island who do not pay for umpires have none. It's that simple. In fact, we discuss fees and dictate that the host team pays the umpires for the district tournament. And we've had three umpires from our district work three different World Series in the last three years - all of whom accepted payment for umpiring LL games.

But those umpires, as well as myself, volunteer our time in other ways. For example, I'm an ADA. I don't get paid for affidavit night, but I'm there for hours pouring over birth certificates, maps, and medical releases. I don't get paid to supervise at tournaments every day or set up brackets or go to monthly meetings.

Also, so that we observe LL's tradition of volunteerism, all of our State Tournaments are volunteer. We do not pay even umpires for those.

So, no worries David. I was just explaining the intent behind LL's preference for volunteers. I can understand why a league feels it necessary to pay for umpires. I would be a hypocrite if I said otherwise.

<i> Originally posted by brandda </i>



<b> I don't disagree with your points from an intention perspective, but reality where we are is a little different. I agree that LL intends to use full volunteers for all positions, but in our league, we have had such a problem getting umpires for all of our games that we have had to consider bringing in paid umpires. Every time we look at it, the single reason why we don't do it is because it is cost prohibitive. Unlike a lot of leagues, we have to rent our facilities at a cost of 10K/year and throwing another 10K/year on top of that to pay for umpires is more than our budget can stand.

So while I agree that the intention is for volunteers, the reality of why we do not use paid umpires is because we cannot afford it without significantly increasing the cost per child to play. </b>

David IMO, the main problem is that LL <i> does not Force </i> individuals to volunteer. It seems as though the same few people do all of the work. I am a single parent raising 4 children and I found the time to donate my time umpiring (that's how I got started in umpiring to begin with), plus be TD, mow the grass, fix the fields, work in the concession stand etc.

People can find the time, but they choose not to, therefore, I have no problem with leagues raising the Registrition FEES to pay for umpires. If a parent can't afford it that's fine <b> as long as they donate their time elsewhere in helping out the league </b>

Each Parent should be required to umpire at least one game a week. In the scheme of things that's not asking too much. This would also cut down on fan problems as these same Fans (Parents) would see <i> first hand </i> what it is like to umpire a game and have more of an appreciation for what we do.

You can't simply <i> drop of your son / daughter <i> and expect other people to <i> pick up the slack </i> for you.

Pete Booth

Pete - Don't disagree with anything you have said. Unfortunately there is an enormous distance between should and do.