I was asked to umpire a Little League tournament this weekend played under "Official Little League" rules. I told the tournament director that I was unfamiliar with these rules but he said that he will go over main points with me before the tournament begins. I was wondering if anyone could help me out with some of the differences between LL and FED rules. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

The TD should have given you a rule book to study. Going over differences in a few minutes before game time is probably going to get you in hot water later.

Bob

Go to RightsSports.com home page and order the BRD by Carl Childress. It is only about 300 pages.
I hope you and the TD are planning a long pre-game!

Roger Greene

BRD does NOT cover the special LL rules.

LL plays OBR with modiifications.

If you are doing 12U LL:

A: Cannot leave the base until pitch reaches batter. Must retrun to the base at the end of the play. If a play results

1) any outs stand
2) Batter can only advance as far as he would have under errorless play - UIC decides "real" value of hit.
3) after the batter's advance is determined, runners are returned to the closest base(s) to the batter. If no open base, the runs score EXCEPT: If, with the bases loaded, the batter hits/bunts the ball within the infield, and no outs are made, the batter gets first, R1>2B; R2>3B; R3 goes to the dugout but NO RUN SCORES. It's nicknamed the "poof" rule because R3 just goes poof.

B: Must slide <u>or attempt to go around</u> a fielder who <u>has the ball and is waiting to make the tag</u>.

c: Pitchers cannot return to pitch after leaving the mound.

D: Pitchers removed can remain in the game.

Regular season and tournament sub rules are different.

Also, on a dropped third strike, the batter is OUT. No advance to first in any case.

Head first slides not allowed, unless player is going BACK to a base (at least in my area).

Special pinch runner allowed once each inning. Must be player not (and never was) in the game. Player does not have to enter game at that point. Same runner can be used more than one inning. Once all subs are used, no special pinch runners are available.

No on-deck batters allowed (no kid swinging a bat while waiting his turn).

No jewelry allowed.

Players are not allowed to leave their dugouts during the game (except wherever pitcher and catcher warm up). Warn them not to run out to Mom in the stands for water during game. One coach noticed an opposing player in the bleachers, said he had left the game, and by rule he was removed from the game (not nice, but true).

"One coach noticed an opposing player in the bleachers, said he had left the game, and by rule he was removed from the game (not nice, but true)."


By what rule is he out of the game?

Reg XIV(b) confines them WITHOUT A SPECIFIED PENALTY.

Rule 3.09 prohibits mingling with spectators WITHOUT A SPECIFIED PENALTY.

The only time a player would be out of the game was if the umpire ejected him for leaving the dugout without permission - a truly BS act if ever there was one at this age group.

Rich: I agree that Reg XIV(b), 3.09, and 3.17 do not impose a penalty. UIC should just tell coach he must enforce these rules, similar to a warning.

Unfortuantely, I was told an ejection actually happened for this reason (maybe it was after being warned, I don't know).
Probably the umps just took someone's word for it that there is a penalty to eject player who broke these rules.
Definitely uncalled for at this age level.

Also, coaches are not allowed to warmn up pitchers under any circumstances.

what happened to all their regular volunteer umpires???

Rog asked: <b>"what happened to all their regular volunteer umpires???"</b>

Excellent question. LL believes, as evidenced by their years of practice (after all, one wouldn't practice what one doesn't believe, would one?) that volunteer umpiring, is a superior system to paid umpiring.

In this case, where are all those superior umpires?

No disrespect intended, but have you ever seen some of these "volounteer" umpires? Gear on wrong (if at all) which invites injury. Calling the game by myths and made up rules which confuses the players. Allowing games to continue during lightning storms with no understanding of the consequences just invites disaster. This is what LL wants!

No! I'm sorry. Umpiring is part of the game and should be done by people who love the game enough to take the crap! By people who understand the rules and are willing to stand toe to toe with a coach or a BOD member. By people who show up at the game with full equipment, ready to do the plate, the bases or even work alone. And if that means that we get paid for our time, then so be it!

LL doesn't claim they are superior umpires.

The basis for LL (where not full time) is volunteers - from DA down to beginning tee ball coach

Therefore they do say they prefer (require at higher levels in the tournament) volunteer umpires.

This may very well be one of the most offensive posts I have ever read. Just to get this straight, I do a great deal of volunteer umpiring, have my own equipment which is top of the line and which I wear properly, love the game, study the rules dilligently and understand them, go toe to toe with coaches et al on a regular basis, take a ton of crap, and will work under any conditions including triple headers with temps over 100 and humidity in the high 80s. Plate, field, alone, I don't care. I have never once allowed the children's safety to be overridden by a desire to see the game played out. Guess what, I'm not unique.

The reason that little league does not pay their umpires is that they do not have tax dollars to pay them with the way high schools do. It is a simple matter of economics and if you jack the price on the players to cover umpires, then most leagues would see a significant drop in participation as they would price themselves out of the market.

One more point, where do you think that most umpires who move up to paid status come from? They start out as unpaid volunteers and, if they have an aptitude and an affinity for it, move up. You would remove that?

I agree that it is not a perfect system but to say that everyone who does volunteer umpiring is an incompetent buffoon is absurd.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by brandda

Quote:

Originally posted by ozzy6900 [The reason that little league does not pay their umpires is that they do not have tax dollars to pay them with the way high schools do. It is a simple matter of economics .

I come from an area where even the schools do not get tax $ for the umpires. Most of the county fields are donated/financed by members of the community. When I was a coach I raised money for the umpires with cake/potted plant/craft raffles to the fans, taking up collections from the parents of the players, or out of my pocket.

I've prepared fields, used my tractor and equipment to grade driveways/parking lots, and built and maintained concession stands and scoreing boxes.

I've donated a batting cage to the my high school, worked at chicken dinners, and buy countless meals and raffle tickets from school and community booster clubs. I've made donations of money and suppliles to each. I'm far from being alone or the most generous in the community.

Tax money is not needed to hired qualified trained umpires. Only the wish to have properly offficiated contests!!!

Roger Greene

Full of yourselves
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Roger Greene

Quote:

Originally posted by brandda Quote: Originally posted by ozzy6900 [The reason that little league does not pay their umpires is that they do not have tax dollars to pay them with the way high schools do. It is a simple matter of economics . Tax money is not needed to hired qualified trained umpires. Only the wish to have properly offficiated contests!!! Roger Greene

You are so full of yourself, and anyone that believes that all volunteer umpires are bad is also full of themselves, among other things. We have a very good organization of umpires in our area that is NOTHING BUT VOLUNTEER. They do nothing BUT Little League. They organize training, supply umpires, and assist with tournaments. They make sure that their umpires are trained properly, wear the proper and well-pressed gear, and support our community. Many umpires from the paid associations volunteer several games throughout the year through this local volunteer association, WITHOUT GETTING PAID.

By the way, I have seen many, many umpires that are paid call games very badly. Payment does not insure competence. The umpires from this local volunteer association are VERY competent, know the rules and the flow of the game, keep coaches in check VERY diplomatically, and let the kids play, especially at the younger levels.

So, forgive me, but I, like Mr. Brand, take great offense at this concept being passed off as truth.

BTW, Mr. Greene, because you don't get paid doing all the field work you do, I assume it's inferior. So why don't you stop doing it and let someone who is paid to do it take care of it. They would certainly be much more competent at it than you. Okay?


[Edited by Striker991 on Jul 19th, 2002 at 11:20 AM]

Thank you for the comments on my personality, Mr. Striker.

I've observed the general competence of volunteer umpire corps vs trained umpires. I'll take the trained s a group anytime. (There are competent volunteers and there are incompetent trained, Ill grant. I'm speeking of the quality as a whole. The imcompetent trained generally don't last). A good number of the trained at time work as volunteers for events/orginizations).

Just don't use the lack of government participitation for an excuse. Any orginization/community can have what they wish. It just takes participation.

Roger Greene

ps: I amy paid for my construction work/tractor work. I just chose, like many others, to do something for the community, when possible, instead of expecting to government to supply all.

Roger,
Some of us who get paid for umping in this area, also work for LL as volunteers.
Little League pays $65.00/game (2-man) for big diamond games, but a few of us do it for free, or not at all.
mick

Paid<>trained
 

Mr. Greene:

I still take exception to your use of "trained" vs "volunteer". Paid does not equal trained. Little League, through district, state, and regional programs provides a great deal of training for their umpires. In addition, local volunteer associations, like the one mentioned above, provide a great deal of training, and insist their umpires are trained before being sent out.

I apologize for sounding demeaning. It gets to be irritating when I hear this concept. And, it still sounds like you think that volunteer umpires are not "trained." I would make a wager with you, that for every incompetent volunteer umpire you point out, I can point out an equal number of incompetent paid ones. But where does this get us? Nowhere. It seems to be the best for all, is, rather than drawing this line, is to promote competent umpiring everywhere. Be an example. Be of assistance. Help with training. Maybe your association could run an annual clinic for all the volunteer umpires in your area? If you brought the level of the volunteer umpire up, you wouldn't have to have a bake sale to hire an umpire.

Re: Paid<>trained
 

Striker991,
Roger Greene was speaking very generally and his comments included a description of me.
However, I do not take that personally, because the shoe just doesn't fit.
It probably doesn't fit too many folks on this forum.
There is nothing wrong with being paid.
There is nothing wrong with working for free.
What matters is that we try to be the best.

Merely trying to be as good as the best, puts us behind the best, because that guy is always improving.
mick

Roger - here's a couple of happenings in a recent game with a trained, paid umipre.

I got the benefit so don't try that road.

Bases loaded, no out, batter hits a weak humpback toward F6. My F6 charges hard and tries a desparate shoestring catch but short-hops it. Ump calls IF. "Enemy" R2 had started to advance. We threw to 2B. Ump calls "out" when the base is tagged - runner was NOT tagged.

"Enemy" runner trapped between 2B and 3B. My F4 throws ball out of play. Ump awards runner 3B, saying it's 1+1, runner was headed to 2B so he gets 2B + 3B.

Of course there was also the time a few years back when another "trained" paid umpire called a batted ball that hit third base foul, the apologized by saying "OOPS! I was thinking iof the High School rule."


Trained and Paid are <b>NOT</b> synonyms. Paid does not = competent. Volunteer does not - incompetent.

Thanks Rich. That's the only point I was trying to make.

Rich says: <b>"LL doesn't claim they are superior umpires."</b>

Oh, but they do..by their actions.

Would LL perform in an manner they believed to be inferior? Of course not. They perform in a manner which they believe to be the best, or superior.

I never said that the reverse of that statement was true.

In my original post I commented on the remark indicating that an orginization could not pay umpires unless tax dollars were involved. That post was followed with an attack on my character.

In my second post I made an observation of my expierence watching and coaching games called by volenteer parents and fans. It was a very general statement, and contained the exclusion you stated above.

Like most things in life, in officiating at athletic contests you end up getting what you pay for. It can be paid for by the time and efforts of a very committed group of volunteers(not just on game days), or it can be paid for by employing competently trained officials. In my expierence the former is rare. Your expierence may differ.

Roger Greene

Garth,

No, they don't.

What they do want is for the umpires to be volunteers just like everyone else.

Why do you think umpires are so special that they should be paid, while all the players, coaches, league boards, DA's, concession workers, parents, etc. volunteer their time and money?

OK, time to chime in
 

I live in an area where literally NO volunteer LL umpires EVER become part of our Federation, College or Summer Umpire Group.

I live in an area where NO SUMMER baseball is supported by tax dollars, in fact, players and coaches "pay-to-play".

I have over the years "tried" to watch poorly trained, out of uniform and uneducated (to the rules and game managment) umpires work games.

I poersonally detest Little League (organized National Group) and what it has done to the game.

Paid umpires are held to a higher standard than volunteers. You would not see, in my area, a paid umpire show up with gear on the outside and his hat turned backwards.

At the volunteer level we often see just the things listed above.

In my opinion people who umpire for free (call them volunteers if you want) are not umpires. They are volunteers helping keep order at a game.

There is nothing wrong with the PEOPLE that work these games, there is a problem with LL for making demands that people volunteer.

Two points to close:

(1) All playoff games in the three largest LL groups in our area are umpired by PAID members of the local FED association.

I conclude that this means that the officials of the local LL "think" there must be a difference between volunteers and umpires.

(2) My statement that for years I have "tried" to watch people umpire . . . it includes volunteers and paid umpires alike.

Rich, you ask what makes umpires different:

1) Expense of GEAR. Coaches don't have that personal expense, LL moms don't HAVE to buy their child the newest Z3000 Titanium Bat, and uniforms don't have to include SEVEN different changes for tournament play.

2) Training. In my area coaches teach with what they have learned over the years (that includes teachng "the hands are part of the bat." Testing, training classes and a committment to learn things they do not know.

3) Impartiality. MOST volunteer umpires in our area are connected in some way to teams. players or coaches. Like the legal system, this is an incestual relationship. This allows coaches to impart pressure on volunteers that just doesn't happen with paid professional (I have to watch that term - I think that umpires that work non-professional games can be called professional -- but just by a small amount).

Tee

[Edited by Tim C on Jul 19th, 2002 at 04:54 PM]

1) Expense of GEAR. Coaches don't have that personal expense, LL moms don't HAVE to buy their child the newest Z3000 Titanium Bat, and uniforms don't have to include SEVEN different changes for tournament play.

<i> POINT BY POINT:

EVERY coach I know pulls money out of his own pocket every year, for litte extras, additional gear, post game drinks, mileage on the car etc.

Most leagues around here provide basic umpire gear. LL umpires don't have to buy the latest whiz bang West Vest, or whatever is the "cool" umpire thing to have this year any more than Mom needs to buy Jr. the latest bat.

Kids Moms know how to wash their uniforms, and do. That's why they only need one. They also know how to play in a dirty uniform if there are multiple games in one day. Maybe you should learn so you don't need seven sets of stuff.</i>


2) Training. In my area coaches teach with what they have learned over the years (that includes teachng "the hands are part of the bat." Testing, training classes and a committment to learn things they do not know.


<i> Oh gee, no coach ever went to a clinic? No coach ever loaded up on training videos? Umpires don''t go to coaching clinics. Coaches don't go to rules clinics.</i>


3) Impartiality. MOST volunteer umpires in our area are connected in some way to teams. players or coaches. Like the legal system, this is an incestual relationship. This allows coaches to impart pressure on volunteers that just doesn't happen with paid professional (I have to watch that term - I think that umpires that work non-professional games can be called professional -- but just by a small amount).


<i> So basically, volunteer umpires ar untrustworthy cheats? Pure unadulterated BS. </i>

Oh, Rich
 

Let's be logical.

Given a choice between two alternatives does one pick what one considers inferior? No. We all act in our own best interests.

LL has a choice. They choose to go with a volunteer umpiring system. (BTW, if you will review my initial post, I refered to a superior system, not superior umpires.)

Now, follow me if you can, this is very simple:

LL has a choice, yes or no? Yes.

LL chooses a volunteer system, yes or no? Yes.

LL would choose a system the find inferior, yes or no? No

Ergo, LL, by its actions (choice) has determined that, for them, in their opinion, a volunteer umpiring system is superior.

To deny that is simply an act of obstinance. Not even LL would deny that they make choices that they feel are the best for them. That is all I ever said. If it makes you feel uncomfortable, I'm sorry.

A classic debate. IMHO, I see much better results with "paid" umps in LL. Doing Fed, Legion, Babe Ruth games, etc. makes for a more varied experience.

I ump in an urban area. It's hard to get coaches to volunteer, much less umps. I also have assigned. Over the years, slowly but surely, I have stopped assigning "non-patch" umps and bringing in new blood. Patch umps are tested, they go to regular clinics. I have never met an umpire who does solely LL who is worth a damp red flag.

We all know that 99% of what happens on a LL field can be covered under MLB rules. A good patch ump can read (and digest) LL 7.13 during a nice sojourn on the toity.

I have umped with too many "volunteers" who show up with pins on their hats, JCPenny loafers, iron burns on their shirts (all true). They use a magnifying glass to spot jewelry. They give 15-minute pregames warning any and all about every infraction possible. They call batters out of the box and measure the tape on bats. The proper batter is always Frank. The plate is exactly 17 inches wide for these guys. If they were cops, they'd write reams of tickets for people who drove 56 mph.

Ask them to suck it up and learn to call a pitch a ball when the catcher digs it out of the dirt--no matter where it crosses the batter. Or how to NOT allow 18 warmup pitches between innings--and won't start the next one until little Justin, the first-base coach, is in his box.

You "vols" out there, I maintain: Get your patch; don't just ump LL; see a real slider; learn 90-foot mechanics; get an inside chest prtotector and a fitted hat. Put your indicator in the left hand and don't say, "High, ball one." Then come back and do LL for free. I do.

Ace

To Rich Ives
 

Your answers to my post don't even make sense.

Slow down and try to use logic.

Thank you, Ace
 

Ace:
This is an opinion and an attitude I can respect, from someone who is "putting their money where their mouth is." Clearly you are someone who is not only doing their best to be the best, but in your assistance and consulting with volunteer umpires to help them to be their best you are also improving your community and the game. You see what is wrong and try to fix it, rather than just degrade and downplay those that aren't at the same level. If I were in your district, I would be contacting you immediately for assistance in finding the best umpiring training available in my area. BTW, if you have more information in District 4 (SW Washington), let me know. I have received information from Tim C (thanks!) for the Portland, Oregon metro area, and am working with Northwest Umpires Association, Evergreen Baseball Umpires Association, and District 4 LL to develop my skills. I totally agree with your post and will encourage all the people I work with to better themselves as umpires in this fashion.

Thanks again, for the support and the kick in the pants to get going!

Greg Owens
[email protected]

<i> Originally posted by Buckeye12 </i>

<b> I was asked to umpire a Little League tournament this weekend played under "Official Little League" rules. I told the tournament director that I was unfamiliar with these rules but he said that he will go over main points with me before the tournament begins. I was wondering if anyone could help me out with some of the differences between LL and FED rules. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. Thanks </b>

When you say LL you need to say which divisions of LL you are referring to.

As Rich Ives pointed out there are some <i> Special </i> rules in the 12 and under age groups that don't exist in the 13 and up groups. Also, the re-entry rule in regular season is vastly different from FED. In LL (regular season), the player re-entering doesn't have to bat in the same position in the order as he /she started.

Also, unlike HS in LL all KIDS must Play. The regular season mandatory play rule (MPR) is: 6 defensive outs AND 1 at bat. In tournament time it is 3 CONSECUTIVE defensive outs OR 1 at bat (either or).

This is a tough thread to answer without making it a thesis so I will try and summarize.

1. Find someone who is familiar with LL rules and <i> pick their brains </i>. LL has safety issues that do not exist in FED. Example; in LL whenever a child is warming up F1 they MUST have a cup, mask and throat protector. However , in FED as long as player is not squating that requirement is not necessary.

2. Once you know the LL safety rules and Special Rules, LL uses OBR. So now we need to compare OBR rules to FED which is no easy task.

Since you umpire using FED rules, you should have a FED Rule Book and at the end of the book, they have a quick reference called MAJOR RULE DIFFERENCIES.

That should give you a start. If you are going to umpire (and even if your not), leagues that use both OBR / FED you should purchase Carl Childress's book on Basic Rule Differencies (otherwise known as the BRD)

Good Luck!

Pete Booth

Garth B

You wrote:

<i>Now, follow me if you can, this is very simple:

LL has a choice, yes or no? Yes.

LL chooses a volunteer system, yes or no? Yes.

LL would choose a system they find inferior, yes or no? No

Ergo, LL, by its actions (choice) has determined that, for them, in their opinion, a volunteer umpiring system is superior.</i>

LL chose the system they PREFER, and which they believe best represents the purpose and objectives of LL. "Superior" umpires are not the objective. It is based on their objectives for the program, not to insure that the absolutely best calls are made in the games. The objectives are to exhibit the proper leadership, and to do it with personnel who are both volunteers and committed to Little League.

To quote from "The Umpire in Little League":

"To effectively penetrate all areas of league personnel and encourage better leadership, it is essential that the umpire, as well as manager and coach, participate in the same degree of volunteer service. The umpire cannot remain aloof from this aspect of the program. Payment for such services relegates the umpire to a category apart from all others who volunteer."

Tim C


No Logic???

In "justifying" your fees:

You maintained that coaches don't have expenses. I said they do and listed a few.

You said Mom doesn't have to buy the latest super-bat. I said umpires don't have to buy the latest super-protector as a counter-point.

In fact, the leagues in these parts provide equipment which make your 'required' equipment expense ZERO. Any additional expense is because you chose to get your own stuff, not because it was required by the league.

You noted having seven sets of uniforms. I countered that if the players can make it with one set, you should be able to also.

You noted that you go to umpire clinics. I countered that coaches go to coaching clinics and buy (expenses again) coaching books and videos. \

You brought up the old "hands part of the bat" BS. I countered that umpires go to rules clinics - coaches go to coaching clinics. Different jobs, different requirements, different clinics.

Per Rich: <b>"LL chose the system they PREFER, and which they believe best represents the purpose and objectives of LL."</b>

That's what I said. Agreement at last.

<b>"Superior" umpires are not the objective."</b>

Once again, I referred to the SYSTEM as being superior, (in the eyes of LL) not the individual umpires.

So in the end we agree, LL, by its choice and actions indicates that it conisders the volunteer system to be superior.

Wonderful.



[Edited by GarthB on Jul 22nd, 2002 at 04:03 PM]

Rich;

I am replying to your message to make a larger point with umpires generally.

I started out in umpiring by being a volunteer using volunteer equipment. I would like to suggest to umpires that they not use the equipment supplied by the leagues and instead buy their own gear.

I was regularly injured doing volunteer baseball with 13-15 years olds. Today, I have my own gear and umpire for 18-23 year olds and I am rarely injured. Some of that is due to the catchers but at least half of it is due to better gear. Volunteer groups don't provide cups; they don't provide steel shoes; and the gear rarely fits properly. All of things combine to vastly increase the rate of injuries to the volunteers.

I might further point out, that good equipment for 13-15 year old baseball is even more important than for NCAA ball. NCAA catchers usually stop the ball and the players don't ever release the bat back into you.

All of my umpire injuries that required medical attention occured while I was a volunteer using the league provided equipment. Your thesis, Rich is flat wrong. Umpires DO NEED the latest whiz bang gear. That gear is a whole lot cheaper than medical bills. All the combined price, for all the gear that I ever bought, cost less that fixing my broken foot from a foul ball of a 13 year old. Don't tell me about insurance. It does nothing to eliminate the pain.

Peter

Proper gear
 

I hear you, Peter. When I first starting doing LL games, I tried to use the gear provided by the league. It didn't fit properly, and often it wasn't even in the equipment shed. In addition, as you said, they didn't provide cups and steel-toed shoes. So, after one game where a fast-pitch softball pitcher hit my instep twice in a row in the same place, I went out and bought my own gear. Aside from the usual thigh shots, I only received one bruise the remainder of the season, and that was because my shoulder pad had slipped and I waited to re-adjust it.

One note: The hint about keeping the face mask a little looser that I learned on one of these boards (might have been here) probably saved my neck (literally) a couple of times, too.

Thanks, all!

Actually, just one important point. Little League recommends the use of volunteer umpires not for any financial reasons. It is for philisophical reasons.

Little League wants to remain true to its roots. Carl Stotz began Little League with just a few teams in Williamsport, PA, many moons ago. But he also had a community dedicated to volunteering to make that league successful.

Volunteering in LL is important because it shows the children of your community that you care about them and their future. Volunteering for your local LL allows you to touch the lives of the children from your community and have a hand in how they develop as citizens of this country. The idea is to help build a successful future for your community. What you put into your community, you will get back.

However, even LL has realized reality. Knowing that most people who would be willing to donate their time to umpire for their local LL simply cannot afford the outrageous costs of uniforms, equipment, and supplies. As a result, some leagues are simply strapped for volunteers. Which is why LL decided for this season to allow their insurance to cover even individuals paid by the league to umpire their games.

Excellent points, Peter.

I want to add that I know of three umpires within the last two seasons in my area who have suffered injuries in LL because they weren't wearing adequate equipment. In all three cases the injury was caused by the same thing - lack of plate shoes. Two of them had their toenails turned up, and the other broke a toe. In all three cases the injuries occurred in Little League Majors with 9-12 year olds.

Jim,

I don't disagree with your points from an intention perspective, but reality where we are is a little different. I agree that LL intends to use full volunteers for all positions, but in our league, we have had such a problem getting umpires for all of our games that we have had to consider bringing in paid umpires. Every time we look at it, the single reason why we don't do it is because it is cost prohibitive. Unlike a lot of leagues, we have to rent our facilities at a cost of 10K/year and throwing another 10K/year on top of that to pay for umpires is more than our budget can stand.

So while I agree that the intention is for volunteers, the reality of why we do not use paid umpires is because we cannot afford it without significantly increasing the cost per child to play.

David,

You're in the same boat as the leagues are in my district, nay - - my whole state. I'll be honest - I accept pay as a Little League umpire. Why? Because that's how it works here and has for more than two decades. Leagues in Rhode Island who do not pay for umpires have none. It's that simple. In fact, we discuss fees and dictate that the host team pays the umpires for the district tournament. And we've had three umpires from our district work three different World Series in the last three years - all of whom accepted payment for umpiring LL games.

But those umpires, as well as myself, volunteer our time in other ways. For example, I'm an ADA. I don't get paid for affidavit night, but I'm there for hours pouring over birth certificates, maps, and medical releases. I don't get paid to supervise at tournaments every day or set up brackets or go to monthly meetings.

Also, so that we observe LL's tradition of volunteerism, all of our State Tournaments are volunteer. We do not pay even umpires for those.

So, no worries David. I was just explaining the intent behind LL's preference for volunteers. I can understand why a league feels it necessary to pay for umpires. I would be a hypocrite if I said otherwise.

<i> Originally posted by brandda </i>



<b> I don't disagree with your points from an intention perspective, but reality where we are is a little different. I agree that LL intends to use full volunteers for all positions, but in our league, we have had such a problem getting umpires for all of our games that we have had to consider bringing in paid umpires. Every time we look at it, the single reason why we don't do it is because it is cost prohibitive. Unlike a lot of leagues, we have to rent our facilities at a cost of 10K/year and throwing another 10K/year on top of that to pay for umpires is more than our budget can stand.

So while I agree that the intention is for volunteers, the reality of why we do not use paid umpires is because we cannot afford it without significantly increasing the cost per child to play. </b>

David IMO, the main problem is that LL <i> does not Force </i> individuals to volunteer. It seems as though the same few people do all of the work. I am a single parent raising 4 children and I found the time to donate my time umpiring (that's how I got started in umpiring to begin with), plus be TD, mow the grass, fix the fields, work in the concession stand etc.

People can find the time, but they choose not to, therefore, I have no problem with leagues raising the Registrition FEES to pay for umpires. If a parent can't afford it that's fine <b> as long as they donate their time elsewhere in helping out the league </b>

Each Parent should be required to umpire at least one game a week. In the scheme of things that's not asking too much. This would also cut down on fan problems as these same Fans (Parents) would see <i> first hand </i> what it is like to umpire a game and have more of an appreciation for what we do.

You can't simply <i> drop of your son / daughter <i> and expect other people to <i> pick up the slack </i> for you.

Pete Booth

Pete - Don't disagree with anything you have said. Unfortunately there is an enormous distance between should and do.