Bud Black EJ
 

I think bud had a great argument here... even though get guy gets thrown more than anyone else...

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | Black and Colbert are ejected arguing a lineup change - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

what happened?

Wow, what's with the old video from last year? Bud was ejected last night because Barksdale blew a call big time. It's not like Black gets thrown out all that often. If you have to resort to pulling up a video from last season, that doesn't help your case. Let's see, I believe Bobby Cox and Ron Gardenhire get kicked out about twice as often as Black does.

Bud Black is on a very short list of the best guys in baseball over the last 25 years. Ask most everyone who played or coached with him. Class guy.

ok what about this one then Steve.... Cox again, but look at the PU signal for a strike.. then he takes it away...

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | Black and Colbert are ejected arguing a lineup change - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

this is the video.. PU says runner missed home...

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | NYN@SD: Black is ejected arguing a play at the plate - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

As a MLB manager, there are times when you need to stick up for your players to the point of getting tossed. He had to get run to make his point on this terrible call. No way can you come back to the dugout after your player touches the plate like that.

Black got run. I would have gotten run too if Barksdale made a call like that and I was the manager. It was brutal! Jeez, the umpires suck sometimes....so what?

I kick a call once in a while too, it's just not spread all over the Internet. I've blown calls and been booed and thought to myself that if I were a fan right now I'd be booing me too!

I'm sorry to everyone who feels that MLB umpires are without fault, but that may have been the worst call I have ever seen. There is no excuse. There was no reason to miss it. What on Earth did this guy see? Maybe he blinked.

If you are referring to the Barksdale play, the only thing I can guess is the runner's body blocked his view. He didn't get fully 3BLX and wasn't 1BLX so I think he chose a bad angle. And, by that angle, did not have the best look at the whole play. That is my only guess and only he knows for sure.

So it's worse than I originally stated.

Yeah, he missed it...rather badly...oh well...he's probably reviewed the play 100 times and won't make the error again if he can help it.

If the runner did block his view of the plate that's fine, S@#$ happens. But you can't assume a miss, if that were the case. That's the bad part. If you can't see it, you HAVE to assume that he touched it.

I'm sorry, but how do you miss that one?

Poor or incorrect angle IMO...he obviously decided no touch at the moment which he chose to not call him safe. Yeah, it's a pretty bad miss. I guess we call it the human element. Some ground balls still 5-hole a gold glove shortstop yet we don't hammer him into the ground for missing a ground ball that most little leaguers can field.

Not intending to be confrontational at all Kevin...just talking with you...but I think we've probably all missed ones that we shouldn't have missed. I will speak for myself...I have missed ones like this...not at the dish, but on the bases and I've become a better umpire because of it.

Your thoughts?

My thoughts are that I agree with you for the most part. It is good to twist and turn after a kicked call, because it makes you a better umpire. But I can honestly not remember seeing a guy wiping the entire width of the plate and not waving him safe. Blown tag plays ... yes. I have had them, and improved after each one. Blown bangers ... yes. I'm good, but not that good. Everybody misses those too. And like you said, if you're doing it right, you improve after each one, and it takes longer before another one.

But that may be as bad a display as a major leaguer can have.

A quote I heard long ago .....

"NOOB: How do you develop good judgement?

VET: Experience.

NOOB: Well, how do you get experience?

VET: Poor judgement!"

Very, very good!

This is just like learning an instrument.

NOOB: How do you learn how to spell 'judgment'?

VET: Post 'judgement' on an internet forum and some pr!ck will correct you.

gee thanks

:D

Judgement is a variation of the common spelling and considered widely acceptable.

But spell it that way in a MLA formatted term paper and it will be graded down.

Good point. None of us remember doing that.

No one intentionally makes a call like that. No one intentionally calls a pitch in the dirt a strike. But it's done. A lot. And those who do it honestly don't think they did. "I would never call a pitch in the dirt a strike" umpires have said to me during post games evals. What they should say is "I would never call a pitch that I SAW hit the dirt, a strike."

Not until I show them my video do they understand that they really did. And they are usually stunned. The issue then becomes, "why", and our conversatiion turns to mechanics and proper use of the eyes.

I have had the same experience with tag plays.

None of us can say with 100% certainty that we haven't committed a gross error in our umpiring. But since we can go home and not see replay after replay we can continue to believe what we saw and did was correct.

MLB and many MiLB and NCAA umpires don't have that luxury. By the time they get to their hotel any mistake has been on Sports Center and is being cued up for the 11:00 news. They have the wonderful opportunity to see their error, again and again and unlike amateurs, they can't deny making it.

Regardless of what we think about MLB umpire X or MLB umpire Y, the fact is that by training and experience, they all are among the best umpires in the world. And here we are claiming that they screw up more than we do.

Trust me, if we had cameras at every game, we'd be singing a different tune.

I'm not excusing pros who screw up, I am saying that amateurs who like to claim that they never make gross errors should add, "that I know of" to such claims.

I'm sure the umpire in the video clip can say the same thing.

The more important question is when was the last time a guy wiped the entire with of the plate and you didn't see it and called him out?

Uh, in my case, that would be: Never.

Fixed that for you.

If it's graded down, it's because the more customary spelling wasn't used, not because it violated MLA guidelines.

No, I've blown lots of calls, but not one like this. I know. I don't umpire in a fog. I know what calls I kick and which ones I don't. And then there are the ones I thought I got right but may have missed. But again, not one like this. Not that it won't happen, just that it hasn't.

Yes, not because of guidelines, because of professors insisting on proper spelling, such as judgment with only one "e."

When I was grading grad students' papers, I was not bothered by "judgement" written by anyone who spelled color, colour.

Remember, "judgement" is the preferred spelling in more English speaking countries than "judgment." The dropping of the first "e" was decided by one man.

Hmm, I guess I've always spelled it "judgement" and no one has ever said anything, college or otherwise.

Yes, but the man happened to be Noah Webster.

Not a bad defence, Steve.

What he said.

And to add to that: Have I missed seeing a guy touch a base? Sure. Have I missed a guy missing a base? Sure.

Would I ever DREAM of calling a guy out unless I SAW him miss a base? No, of course not. THAT makes this call SO much worse. He called a guy out because he thought he missed home. This is one of the worst calls I have ever seen. It is similar, but even worse than this: 7-8-06 Cardinals @ Astros - The Official Forum

Maybe the PU was 100% sure that he missed the plate. How would you know that without mind reading? Did he tell you that he guessed?

You know, you both don't look very wise for fighting over nothing. Same goes for the countless other people who have been flaming recently. The p1ssing contests make everyone look very immature.

Yeah, let's try and move past this crap...the board has been pretty dead the past few weeks probably because of this stuff. While I'm nowhere close to some of the vets on here...we all have a lot more to offer this board than what's been going on here the past few weeks.

If you look at Merriam Webster Dictionary online, the 4th definition of SURE is:

4 a : marked by or given to feelings of confident certainty <I'm sure I'm right> b : characterized by a lack of wavering or hesitation <sure brush strokes> <a sure hand>

There is a pretty good chance that this PU was SURE. However, he did not become sure by actually SEEING the guy miss the home plate-because he did not miss it.

I have blown calls and I have called balls strikes. I have called guys out on swipe tags that may have been missed, and I have made rulings that I later realized were wrong. But I have absolutely never, ever had a guy wipe the entire width of the plate and called him out. Never, ever, for absolutely certain.

What you say has some validity, but not when it comes to a play like that. Never.

What he said!

And, like you, no major league umpire has ever called a runner out who he saw wipe the entire width of the plate prior to a tag.

I think you're missing the point.

He could not have possibly seen the miss, because, well, there was no miss. You have to clearly see it, to make this call.

The point of this whole conversation (hopefully) is to educate others. On a play like this, you have to be 100% sure that the plate wasn't touched. That wasn't the case here, obviously. He had to have been screened out by the runner's body. And when that happens, you can't assume the miss.

So, this means Tim McClelland got the call on Holliday right, because there's no way he could have seen him miss the plate, so he must have been safe, right? You can't assume that he missed the plate if you're not looking at the play!;)

No, you're missing my point, which is the umpire called what he "saw" as the correct call. MLB umpires do not intentionally make the wrong call any more than any of us do. He believed he got it right.

Then, he saw that he didn't on replay and admitted his error.

That's one difference between MLB and amateur umpiores they have replay to show them when they get it wrong, even when they think they are right.

We believe we get calls right, and thanks to not having contrary evidence played over and over, get to continue thinking that and then write posts on the internet claiming we've never made such a mistake.

His calls are so slow, I'm still waiting for it two years later.

How true!:)

I was gonna say, I know a lot of Padre fans still waiting for Holladay to touch the plate. ;)

Oy vey.

I have been wrong many times over the years on tag plays.

I have missed hundreds of balls and strikes in my 15+ years.

I have never called a guy out for missing a base unless I SAW him miss it.

If you BELIEVE a guy missed a base, you call him safe.

If you are SEE him miss definitely miss the base, you call him out(assuming proper appeal).

This PU did not SEE this runner miss home plate, he BELIEVED it.

You still don't get it. He did see the runner miss the plate. It is possible to see something that didn't actually happen.

Back from 2003..

"'Procedurally, I didn't handle it 100 percent right,' McClelland told The Post in an exclusive interview in the umpires' room in The Stadium. "But I'm sure it hit the pole."

When asked if McClelland saw if the ball hit a fan's glove and not the foul pole, the veteran ump was adamant that he saw the ball hit the pole. Television replays showed that it hit a fan's glove and dropped on to the field."

He saw the ball hit the pole not a glove. Replays showed that it hit a glove. What he saw wasn't actually what happened.

I am not surprised that you believe that someone can SEE something that did not happened.

is it "cognitive dissonance"? is that the term?

Well I am pretty smart.

Is that picture moving?

http://www.magictrance.net/images/wave.gif

It happens all the time.

I've had coaches SEE tags that didn't take place. My personal favorite is a coach who SAW the ball hit the foul line when there was no foul line.

People see UFO's.

Cops see people with weapons who don't have so much as a nail file.

It happens.

Depending on how it is used, a nail file can be a weapon. When I was on the job, I had an old lady try to stab me in the chest with a knitting needle (thank goodness for my vest).

Reading is a skill, officer.

I referred to poeple who DID NOT have a nail file.