Taking signs while off the rubber - with a twist
 

I know we've been over and over the topic of the pitcher looking for signs while not in contact with the rubber. I'm not looking to start a new debate but wanted to share a situation I've never encountered before.

I have the plate for a legion game on Friday night. The batter is in the middle of his AB, 2-1 count. The batter is in the box and the pitcher is on the mound straddling the rubber.

The batter then requests time, which I grant. He backs out of the box to my left and I leave the area to my right. The batter then looks at me and asks, "Wasn't he taking signs while off the rubber?"

I'm not sure I heard him correctly so I ask him to repeat it.

"The pitcher wasn't on the rubber when he was taking signs."

I reply, "Concentrate on your hitting and leave the umpiring to me. Get in the box."

Tell him to look down at the catchers fingers while he is in the box and tell you...

Good answer!

This is the problem we get ourself into. The kid asks a very legit question and gets a "none of your business answer." Instead of treating the kid like he had no idea what he was talking about, how about "Time, son your exactly right, the rule say this and that but the penalty for this is ..... and therefore we basically are only obligated to give a warning" or someting similar to this.

A straight forward question, deserves a straight forward answer. You were given an oppurtunity to display your knowledge as an umpire and gain more respect but, you choose to let the kid walk away thinking you were a pompus blue with an attitude.

I would have taken the time to answer the question, then if the kid started with and attitude, it would be treated differently or he may have just said, "thanks Blue, I didn't know that."

Sheesh
 

After that you could ask for everyone to have a group hug.

I go with waltjp on this one.

I don't EVER explain rules to players.

You would interrupt the at bat, the pitcher and the flow of the game to gaive a rules clinic?

Good gravy.

Although my response might have been less authoritative than Walt's, I would have said something like "OK. He wasn't. Let's go. Play!"

I'm still not going to spend the time to explain it. If he wants to learn the rules, pick up a few books like us and learn them. Then, he can have the same level of understanding as we have. Otherwise, leave him as dumb as he was when he stepped in the box.

Simple, short baseball answers. I'm not there to give a rules clinic. Just to call a game.

The more you talk, the more trouble you get into.

Give him a hug and cookie while you're at it.

Sheesh!
 

I absolutely understand where most of you guys are coming from! Why would any of you want a player to think you're not just another arrogant prick? But seriously, Georgia, if the kid was right about the rule, what's your point in saying, "Leave him as dumb as he was when he stepped in the box"?

Waiting for the "rat" references.

My response to the batter: Okay, so what? What is the proper penalty? :confused::confused::confused:

Okay then, get in the box and bat.

If the cheese fits...

"No, he's OK. Let's go."

Same as when a coach asks about a balk move that isn't. I'm going to answer the question, not give a rules clinic. I try not to be an azz about it.

You apparerently understand umpiring as much as you understand the concept of lurking.

I love coaches. First they scream, "don't coach my players" if an umpire talks to the catcher. Then they whine when an umpire decides getting on with the game is more important than coaching their batter.

It's summer time, spokane, don't you have t-ball game to prepare for?

What was he right about for any rule? He said the pitcher wasn't on the rubber when taking signs. He made a statement and was countered by one. He wasn't right about any rule. As far as I could tell, he was making an observation. If he wants to make one, then make it. Otherwise, leave him as dumb as he was.

He obviously had no idea why he was making that statement. I guess the myth of it being a balk was in his head. So, I'll leave him as dumb about it as he was since all he was doing is making an observation with absolutely no point by it. So, why am I going to try to teach him anything? He doesn't even know how to approach it to say "He took the signs off the rubber. Is that a balk?" Then, he gets a "No" and let's go.

If he isn't smart enough to get to the answer he is looking for, then I will not give it to him and "Leave him as dumb as he was when he stepped in the box". I'm not a mind reader. He made an observation and I agreed with him on the observation. What's wrong with that?

Ah!!!!!!!!

The arrogant official.

Thanks for validifying my point guys.

I am sure though, your nose is too far in the sky to care.

Sometimes when they ask a simple question, I will answer them...for me it depends on how the game is going...if I haven't had any issues up to this point, I'll simply say that he's waiting for you to get set in the box. I will not explain the rule...I think another poster had stated..."nope, he's good" and we play on. Ultimately we are there to umpire the game and they are there to play the game. Sometimes we have to give attitude, sometimes we can simply answer the question.

Take it as you want. The umpire is not there to put on a rules clinic. If they want one, go to one. I think I am going to start taking Tim_C's attitude on these things and say "Go hug a tree". :D

The coach is there to teach him. The umpire is there to call the game. If something happens that the coach doesn't understand, then he is the one to talk to the umpire and get a clear understanding. If he doesn't have a problem with it, then his players don't have a problem with it.

Pretty simple philosophy isn't it? Coach teaches, umpire calls. What about that doesn't the batter get? If he has a question, ask his coach and his coach can ask the umpire if he can't explain it himself. Nothing arrogant about that.

I don't disagree a simple "He is fine" would be suffice however, that is not what was stated.

I think a "he's fine, now let's play" would be sufficient and appropriate.

Hmmm, I have to take issue here. It isn't arrogant to tell a player to mind his own business and to concentrate on his own job. What it is is preventative maintenance.

We aren't allowed to coach the players, and they aren't allowed to coach us. Little Bucky Beaver shouldn't be worried about where the pitcher is taking his signs. That's our job. Do we grab his bat and say, "here's how it's done, son?" No. So he has no business trying to interject his opinions about the rules. If he wants to become an umpire, he will first have to change clothes.

Steve, I guess its ok for us to POINT to who calls time out so we can keep everyone happy and it makes us look like we really know what were doing but, when we get a chance to verbally let them know, then we don't want to play the part anymore because it may look like were human beings under that uniform. Heaven forbid that evers happens.

To bad respect isn't just as easy as singing about it like Aretha Franklin did.

Then again, some may just not care, whatever.

Let me clarify a few points. I'm not a hard *** when I ump. If someone asks a legit question I'll answer it as best I can in the time allowed. Like others have said, I'm not out there to conduct a rule's clinic.

This particular batter had been stepping out all night and calling time when at bat. By the time he asked about the pitcher taking signals I was out of patience with him. And even with that my answer may have been different if his tone was different.

[QUOTE=GA Umpire;611 So, why am I going to try to teach him anything? He doesn't even know how to approach it to say "He took the signs off the rubber. Is that a balk?" Then, he gets a "No" and let's go.

I[/QUOTE]

Depends if they are playing by FED rules. This is supposedly a balk in their rule set.

I agree, we should not be holding rules clinics. I was just basing my comments on the original thread. Given the new information, I probably would have handled it the same.

Shame on you for letting him get away with that.

Batters do not call time, they ask for time. Umpires call time, but not every time it is asked for.

Maybe you can be specific and tell me exactly what I let him get away with so I can correct it next time.

You don't say whether you granted time at every request, but that would be one thing (if your request here is serious). You're probably aware that 6.02(d) prohibits the batter from stepping out of the box after most pitches. It has penalties, depending on what happens.

Slow batters make slow pitchers, and slow pitchers make long games. :(

I think this answer is okay. I'd probably go with something along the lines of, "Maybe -- but that's allowed."

While we should address the question, and not be arrogant, we should also try to keep the "rules clinic" to 5 words or less.

No, I don't grant the TO on every request. If the batter puts his hand up I'll watch to see what's going on. If TO is required I'll call it. If not, I'll instruct him to get in the box. I have no problem telling a batter to stay in the box after every pitch.

My games have a good pace to them. One of my pet peeves is partners on the plate who do not control the tempo between innings or during ABs. Like you said, it slows the game down to a snail's pace.

that's more what I would do and what I like. Short and simple, but you did answer his legitimate question.

Hey, the kid might be an umpire one day ...

Thanks
David

Barkeep, give me a Taking Signs While Off The Rubber with a twist, please!:)

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...e/inb4lock.jpg

These two statements seem somewhat at odds with one another.

He didn't say he tells them to, just that he has no problem doing it when he does it.