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bluesox20 Sat Jun 20, 2009 01:12am

Base Hit or Not?
 
What is the official ruling on the following. A runner is on first base, a batter hits the ball to the outfield which in not caught by the outfielder. The outfielder fields the ball and throws the ball to second base which gets the runner out coming from first. Would the batter be credited with a hit or would this situation be considers a fielder choice?

zm1283 Sat Jun 20, 2009 01:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluesox20 (Post 609951)
What is the official ruling on the following. A runner is on first base, a batter hits the ball to the outfield which in not caught by the outfielder. The outfielder fields the ball and throws the ball to second base which gets the runner out coming from first. Would the batter be credited with a hit or would this situation be considers a fielder choice?

It depends on what happens in the outfield. If the outfielder didn't make an error on the play, it's a hit. You can have a hit then a force out at second base.

dash_riprock Sat Jun 20, 2009 06:20am

Fielders choice. An error is not possible, even if the fielder dropped a fly ball.

DonInKansas Sat Jun 20, 2009 07:22am

No hit on a force play. FC.

Tim C Sat Jun 20, 2009 07:33am

~Cripes~
 
Quote:

"It depends on what happens in the outfield. If the outfielder didn't make an error on the play, it's a hit. You can have a hit then a force out at second base."
If this wasn't so tragically wrong it would be funny.

Please don't answer when you do not know what you're talking about.

umpjong Sat Jun 20, 2009 07:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 609952)
It depends on what happens in the outfield. If the outfielder didn't make an error on the play, it's a hit. You can have a hit then a force out at second base.

Your ruling is only acceptable if you are keeping score and its your son that hit the ball to the outfield!!!!!!!!! ;)

Otherwise its a F.C. :D

zm1283 Sat Jun 20, 2009 08:23am

You're telling me that if a player hits a clean single to right center and the dumba** on first ends up getting forced out at second, you're not going to give him a hit?

The OP said nothing about the outfielder dropping a fly ball. It just said it wasn't caught. That could mean anything.

grunewar Sat Jun 20, 2009 09:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 609974)
You're telling me that if a player hits a clean single to right center and the dumba** on first ends up getting forced out at second, you're not going to give him a hit?

What if the batter hits a sinking liner to right center and the fielder charges it and at the last minute backs off (as he knows he won't catch it). Runner checks up, not knowing if it will be caught. Right fielder plays it on a hop and tosses to second for the easy out. You gonna give the batter a hit? FC.

SanDiegoSteve Sat Jun 20, 2009 09:37am

Of course it's a Fielder's Choice. What else could it be, by rule?

Rich Ives Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 609989)
Well, seeing that he didn't reach base, I don't know how that would be a base hit.

My logic was that there is no "choice" in the outfielder's decision. If it's a clean single, there is no play at first on the hitter, so he only has a play at second. Usually a FC requires some sort of choice made by the defense, but in this situation the fielder has no choice on which player to try to get out.

Why do you seem so angry about little stuff like this? Deep breath.....

You don't need logic, you need the scoring rules.

10.05
(b) The official scorer shall not credit a base hit when a:
(1) runner is forced out by a batted ball, or would have been forced out except for a fielding error;
(2) batter apparently hits safely and a runner who is forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner fails to touch the first base to which such runner is advancing and is called out on appeal. The official scorer shall charge the batter with a time at bat but no hit;


People get upset when a poster continues to argue against a black-and-white-by-the-rules ruling.

zm1283 Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Ives (Post 609994)
You don't need logic, you need the scoring rules.

10.05
(b) The official scorer shall not credit a base hit when a:
(1) runner is forced out by a batted ball, or would have been forced out except for a fielding error;
(2) batter apparently hits safely and a runner who is forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner fails to touch the first base to which such runner is advancing and is called out on appeal. The official scorer shall charge the batter with a time at bat but no hit;


People get upset when a poster continues to argue against a black-and-white-by-the-rules ruling.

That's fine. I admitted long ago in this thread that I was wrong. I'm not continuing to argue against anythinng. I'm not sure why Kevin feels the need to keep proving he was right, all because I told him I did additional research on why this is a FC and not a hit.

Kevin, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed? Bad game last night?

SanDiegoSteve Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:40am

Again, what else could it have been? A fielder's choice! You keep telling us not to argue on things. We're not arguing, we're just expressing our opinions. Quit taking it so personally. Admit (and not grudgingly) that we were right and you were wrong. I have to do that constantly around here when I FUBAR something.

zm1283 Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 609983)
I've never taken scorekeeping "knowledge" from a woman.

I looked around some more online, and I guess it's a FC. I don't agree with it, but you guys are right. The hitter is getting screwed though either way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve (Post 610000)
Again, what else could it have been? A fielder's choice! You keep telling us not to argue on things. We're not arguing, we're just expressing our opinions. Quit taking it so personally. Admit (and not grudgingly) that we were right and you were wrong. I have to do that constantly around here when I FUBAR something.

Gee, that looks like I admitted that I was wrong in that post. Did you not read the thread from the start, or did you choose to ignore it so you could pile on?

It's times like this that make you believe umpires have bigger egos than coaches, and I didn't think that was possible.

Kevin Finnerty Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Ives (Post 609994)
You don't need logic, you need the scoring rules.

10.05
(b) The official scorer shall not credit a base hit when a:
(1) runner is forced out by a batted ball, or would have been forced out except for a fielding error;
(2) batter apparently hits safely and a runner who is forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner fails to touch the first base to which such runner is advancing and is called out on appeal. The official scorer shall charge the batter with a time at bat but no hit;


People get upset when a poster continues to argue against a black-and-white-by-the-rules ruling.

Upset is one. Incredulous is another. Amused, astounded and dumbfounded are others.

kylejt Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve (Post 610016)
..., but seriously wondering how anyone could come up with anything but Fielder's Choice as the answer to the question.

It's Dad's wishful thinking. Is it any wonder how some LL kids bat .800 when Dad has the book?

As for scorekeeping, I learned the craft from a woman in Candlestick Park, many years ago. She was quite good, and often disagreed with the official at the park, with good reason. I've never seen so many folks with scorebooks than in Candlestick. It's quite an art, and everyone had their own style. I got a good education, and appreciation for the game in that old meat locker of a park. I won't miss the location, but I do miss the fans, as they were very baseball savvy. Unlike Petco, that has to have the dumbest fans, on average, in MLB.

SanDiegoSteve Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by kylejt (Post 610019)
It's Dad's wishful thinking. Is it any wonder how some LL kids bat .800 when Dad has the book?

As for scorekeeping, I learned the craft from a woman in Candlestick Park, many years ago. She was quite good, and often disagreed with the official at the park, with good reason. I've never seen so many folks with scorebooks than in Candlestick. It's quite an art, and everyone had their own style. I got a good education, and appreciation for the game in that old meat locker of a park. I won't miss the location, but I do miss the fans, as they were very baseball savvy. Unlike Petco, that has to have the dumbest fans, on average, in MLB.

Agreed about Petco. I learned scorekeeping for both bowling and baseball as a young lad. Bowling from my nightly duties as scorekeeper for leagues (in the era before automatic scoring machines), picking up a little extra pocket money, and baseball from my dad and other fans at Westgate Park (where the Padres, of course played their PCL home games). It is indeed a lost art. Back then, it seemed as though everyone kept book. Some had real scorebooks, and most used the one that was inside the program. Ah, the good old days!

DonInKansas Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:37pm

Holy crap; a thread about rule 10 got to a second page! Insanity!

Rich Ives Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonInKansas (Post 610022)
Holy crap; a thread about rule 10 got to a second page! Insanity!

Things are a little slow - HS and college are over and LL and its bretheren orgs are transitioning between regular season and their tournaments. Summer ball is kicking off. It's raining. Need to do something to kill the boredom.

DonInKansas Sat Jun 20, 2009 02:39pm

I hear that. I've managed to stay as busy as I can with my limited schedule with summer ball. Jayhawk League ball has been a welcome change.

Kevin Finnerty Sat Jun 20, 2009 04:44pm

I love summer ball. The 18-over wood bat gets some great kids coming out, as does the scout ball. Current college players and D-I and pro aspirants play in these leagues, and some of them can flat-out play.

Brett Sat Jun 20, 2009 05:32pm

You guys are brutal. Seriously what's the point? The guy knows he was wrong and you still want to beat on him.

Carry on with your bad selves. * rolls eyes *

SanDiegoSteve Sun Jun 21, 2009 04:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett (Post 610038)
You guys are brutal. Seriously what's the point? The guy knows he was wrong and you still want to beat on him.

Carry on with your bad selves. * rolls eyes *

What's the point? Seriously? What's the point?



I don't know.:rolleyes:


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