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GA, after a weekend with these guys(and they were ALL rejects from the bike assembly at Toys R US) I made ONE little flippant remark.
Do I regret the remark...only in the mildest sense of the word. Like I said before, I probably should not have said it. What amazes me is the depth that some people here go to denigrate all coaches and excuse all umpires. It is insane. Thanks for your comment. |
All of this over...9U baseball.
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I've seen college umpires work summer rec programs and take phones with them and make and take calls between innings. Frankly, life's too short to care about crap like that. It's a 9U game. It's supply and demand. If you could get better for $37.50, you'd have them already. The choices are simple: Accept what you have, pay more, or entice better people to do the job. I'd do it for $50 as long as there were 2 games and it was less than 10 miles from my house (but I would have no tolerance of rats). |
I am not excusing or blaming anyone for anything. Umpires should know the rules or make a valiant effort to learn them. They should not listen to coaches ever about the rules. They talk to their partners for that if they need help.
As for coaches, they are not to blame for umpires' ignorance of the rules. Umpires take that blame. But, coaches should not be upset if they are contributing to the ignorance. That is all I am saying. Also, is it necessary to try to belittle the umpires? They are not able to defend themselves. Especially, if they know nothing about being talked about. And, why do so many of the posters feel it necessary to refer to younger umpires as (insert any name you have called young umpires) just b/c they didn't like their attitude. Others are guilty of this as well. |
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Perfect ending to a year. |
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http://westendwhingers.files.wordpre...-head-spin.jpg |
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You ask who pays attention to stuff like cell phones. Do you not see the problem with making $37 and wearing a cell phone, then doing a lousy job. By the way, $37 is very good pay. I can't imagine anyone demanding $50 per game for 2 games at most 10 miles away from home. |
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If you do not realize how stupid an umpire looks on a cell phone on the field, you have spoken volumes. I don't need to know anything more about your professionalism. Joe |
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I get more grief working kids games than anything else and it's a lack of knowledge and decorum on the part of the coaches and parents 99% of the time. If I price myself out of that market, I have more time for golf and my daughter. And a coach can come on here and complain about the guy they get in my place. |
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BTW, I have only ever taken a phone on the field/court when my wife was pregnant. I wouldn't do it otherwise, but that's because it's not right for me. I don't lean up against a fence or talk to my partners between every inning or....well, you get the picture. But I'm not about to stand and pass judgment over a guy I didn't see myself. I just find it ironic that a coach can do what the OP did and yet he's somehow on higher moral ground than the umpire. "You can't....you already called him safe!" Glee ensues. Pot. Kettle. Black. |
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Joe, just curious. When you made the original post, what were you looking for? Information? Feedback on how to handle a situation? Reading your OP, I'm thinking of what I usually say to a coach at a basketball game who's keeping up a running chatter on the sideline: "Is there a question in there?"
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Wow, I've been reading for awhile...what was the OP about?
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They really outdid themselves, though. |
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The refuge of the creator of a losing argument. |
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I said what I said to Cell Phone McGhee. I am not sure what your comment means. |
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If I were willing to drive 20 miles and do a solo, $75 per; and they are glad to pay it. You must live somewhere there are a surplus of umpires. |
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An "Internet troll" or "Forum Troll" or "Message Board Troll" is a person who posts outrageous message to bait people to answer. Forum Troll delights in sowing discord on the forums. A troll is someone who inspires flaming rhetoric, someone who is purposely provoking and pulling people into flaming discussion. Flaming discussions usually end with name calling and a flame war. OR In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion. |
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I simply reject the "I was wearing my coach had at the time" argument as it pertains to this situation. I subscribe to the "once an official ALWAYS an official" camp. As an official, lying to ANYONE (even cell phone mcgee) to gain a competitive advantage in amateur athletics is simply beneath me.
Too bad it's not beneath you, Joe. |
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I already said that the best case scenario, I would have been able to keep my mouth shut(of course, for many people here, even THAT would not have been good enough...for them I should have been told the umpire to call my guy out) I was expressing my opinion that it was too late and I did not want him change his mind. I certainly did not state that the rules preclude him from changing his mind. He did not know I am an umpire. My comment was not given or taken as an authoritative commentary on the OBR. The only reason he was considering changing his mind was too placate the other team who were hollering at him. He was just a wimp trying to please the other team. If I had gotten any notion that this guy gave a flying crap about doing a good job, I would have never said anything. If he had been a kid instead of an adult, I would not have said anything. |
Rats
Since the other thread was closed before I could respond to your post, I will put it here.
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And, if the player does fess up to not catching a fly ball, then he is showing morals to not cheat to win. He knew he missed it and did not lie about it. I can't believe you called an honest player a moron. You have clearly showed you are a wolf in sheep's clothing on the field(coach dressed up like an umpire). And, you wonder why so many attack you when you post things. You are always negative toward umpires who do not agree with you hence your other thread. And, you attempt to convince umpires they are wrong when they are right. And, you wonder why coaches/players are referred to as "Rats". Go figure. |
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Coach: Then you must think it is the truth. That's different. You aren't unethical, you're just ignorant of the rules. Hopefully you'll brush up before putting your umpire hat back on. |
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Any player that says, "No, I did not catch it" is a moron and also benched. I think I did nail it on the head for some of you in the piety lobby...A player or coach or manager should help the umpire who screwed up a call in their favor or they are rats. But, they only should help the umpire fix his call if the umpire erred in their favor. The insanity of your position cannot be overstated. Why should a coach or manager help the umpire but not the reverse? |
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I said those who do not do what you did show integrity and morals. Not "cheat to win at all costs" idea. Every post you make shows why coaches are perceived as "rats". I can't believe you don't see it but you clearly don't. Keep being a rat with each post. |
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Have you ever called a pitch a strike and then realized it was a ball? Did you change it for the integrity of the game? Have you ever called a pitch a strike that you KNEW was a ball? Have you ever given a "ball off the plate" as your strike zone? Have you ever called a guy out on a ball out of the zone because he was a jerk on strike two? Have you ever called a guy safe or out and then realized you kicked the call. Did you then tell everyone that you blew it and changed the call? Do you criticize umpires for doing any of these things? How about the umpires that laugh about getting outs and strikes that don't exist? What about the umpires who call guys out because "the ball was there"...even if the tag was not. You want an outfielder to say "NO! I did not catch it! call him SAFE!" You take the cake. |
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Integrity of the game is calling the game within the rules. If the umpire blows the call, he has not ruined the integrity of the game. He just missed it. And, a judgment call does not change just b/c the umpire may think he blew the judgment. If there is a rule misapplied(as in your play), then the judgment call can be changed such as first baseman's foot comes off the bag. All of that still upholds the integrity of the game b/c it is part of the game and rules. A player/coach informing the umpire of what the correct call is shows integrity of the person. Doesn't mean the call will change. It just means the person has morals and integrity. And, that goes a long way. Just like when an umpire knows a coach/player is a "rat". He does not get the benefit of the doubt at that point b/c he will do/say anything to get an advantage. I'm not saying you have to do that by no means. All I am saying is don't question why others attack you when you pull "rat" tactics and come on here to brag about them. Do what you want. If you get busted, well, then you deserve the treatment you get such as close plays not going your way. Or, your fellow coaches giving you he!! as an umpire b/c they already know the levels you will stoop to. That is all I am saying. |
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OMG, a 9 y/o has more integrity than an adult and shows it. |
Mr. Umpire told me that I am acting like a coach on an umpire board. I will attempt an objective perspective, which is hard to do after all the inflammatory postings made in the OP's direction.
One of the coach's jobs is to win games using good sportsmanship. The main debate is whether jwwashburn was breaking the rules of good sportsmanship when he tried to decieve the umpire. Let's list some terms that we associate with sportsmanship, and discuss whether the attempt to decieve violated any of them. |
Too late
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In summary 1) Rats have no business talking to the umpire after the game ends to clarify anything. 2) Rats have no business talking to the umpire between innings of a game to clarify anything. In short, the rat should have left the field without exchanging words with the umpire. He got away with some more cheese. 3) The only reason we discuss the proper or improper behavior of rats is to keep our cheese. |
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Also, an umpire has no responsibility to correct an incorrect judgment call(even if he realizes he kicked it)...the team who benefitted from that call should try and get it corrected in order to show integrity...and of course, if they do not...they are all rats. In other words, umpires start out with the understanding that they are good, honest folks. Players/coaches are bad unless they take extraordinary efforts to help umpires correct calls that were ruled in their favor...but only calls in their favor. We really want them to keep their yaps shut if we screw them with a bad call. |
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I will say this is new to me...I have never heard in my 15+ years of umpiring anyone espouse such a ridiculous standard for players. I have worked with who knows how many umpires with hundreds of years of experience and I have never heard this kind of idiocy from any of them. I have contacted at least fifteen good friends whom I have umpired with for years and each one of them them thought I was joking or could not even fathom that umpires actually would say a player lacked integrity for not trying to get a call reversed that went in his favor. I wonder what a poll would show here.... I would hope that most people who even disagree with my actions in the OP(which, by the way, I have many times said it would have been better if I had not said it) would not favor the lunacy of a player/coach trying to get an umpire to rule against him. I have been around sports all of my life in many different parts of the country...I have never heard this before. |
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Incredible that you would say: "all this could have been averted....If the coach." The UMPIRE blew the incredibly easy call. He might have been the only person there that did not know that the kid was supposed to be out. Think about that...even the 9 year old players knew that this moron got the call wrong....even the grandmothers knew it. But, it is allllll the coach's fault. Which is easier...teaching a 9 yr old to get to the base when he is crying or an adult umpire to call him out when he is tagged way off the base. Ohhh, poor Cell Phone McGhee had never seen a play like before.....the coach should have helped him....Booo hoooo!!! The 9 yr old runner had never been beaned by a thrown ball while running before, either. |
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Again, wow!
Seriously, SAump? You take that attitude onto the field and think that you can officiate with integrity. Keep telling yourself that!
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Ripleys' Beleive or Not Museum
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Perhaps you missed the central theme of my PM. You, along with jw may occasionally wear an umpire's uniform and call games. You may even go to umpire meetings and umpire clinics. But when a critical event occurs, you both immediately think and react like rats. Your first impulse is not that of an umpires, but that of coach. We are not naive. We know coaches lie. We're just amazed that they can lie and then say they didn't. Even more amazing is, like jw has stated, coaches will punish a player for telling the truth. Wow. My point to you, my young Canadian friend, is that when you claim to be an umpire, but throw your lot in with coaches, act like a coach, think like a coach, respond like a coach and defend a lying coach who would punish a player for telling the truth, all on an umpire board, you have no right to be surprised or even offended when you are treated accordlingly. When I first came to this site someone used to say there is a difference between an umpire who coaches and a coach who umpires. I believe you and jw have shown that to be true. |
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But, let's talk integrity. What do you think about a coach who punished young players for telling the truth? What should parents think about that? |
I think this has gone on long enough.
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