Game fees.
 

MTD, Jr., and I belong to two umpires associations in the Toledo area.

One association is an OhioHSAA Certified Local Officials Association (LOA), which conducts required rules interpretations/mechanics meetings; this association also assigns H.S. baseball and fastpitch softball umpires as well as travel league baseball and fastpitch softball and summer fastpitch softball games and tournaments.

The other association is not associated with the OhioHSAA and assigns, travel league baseball and fastpitch softball and summer fastpitch softball games, as well as the house leagues for a area city's recreational department. The assigner for this association sent the following email to the membership regarding game fees:


"There were 2 instances last night where weather had an effect on the umpire's pay. I will explain the guidelines to you, and then explain how these umpires should have been paid.

When weather becomes the issue of whether a game gets played or completed, here are the guidelines:

1. If the game does not get started, the umpires receive nothing.

2. If the game gets started, even if it is only one pitch, the umpires get 1/2 fee. Once the game becomes official, the umpires are entitled to the other half of the fee.

So in last night's games, the one game at 8:00 pm never got started, so the umpires should not have gotten any fees. In the other game at 8:00 pm, 5 pitches were thrown when the game was stopped. The umpire on that game got half of his fee.

One other thing - if you receive the full fee before the game, and you don't start or don't finish, find the coach and give the appropriate money back. It just gives you credibility as an umpire and an honest person in general. Too many coaches tell me that some umpires are only in it for the money. While we all like the extra cash, you have a unique skill, and most of us do this because we like it. Always make that the main reason you umpire - because you like it. If the main reason you do it is because of the money, you are probably not that good of an umpire! Keep that in mind.

I will explain this to all of our travel coaches as well, so they have an understanding. The same goes for rec games as well - no pitch, no money. One pitch, 1/2 fee. Official game, full fee."


These game fee rules are pure unalderated horse manure. I can live with getting a 1/2 game fee if the game is canceled before we can start the game, but once the game starts, it is a full game fee or no umpires.

MTD, Sr.

That about sums it up perfectly. I wouldn't work for any group with a policy like that.

Mark,

You are very polite.

I was wondering how much of a "bonus" you get when the game goes extra innings??:rolleyes:

In my association, if the game is not cancelled by 90 minutes prior to scheduled start time, umpires receive a full game fee.

JM

Agree as well. That's ridiculous!

-Josh

Probably about as much as you give back for a game stopped via run rule.:p

Mark I am with you

One thing this 'clown" forgot to include in his statement when he talks about money.

Umpiring is a BUSINESS. just like any other. Give the above like Fee structure to any contract worker you have dealt with and see what happens. Unless he/she is a friend of yours they will tell you thanks but no thanks.

In or association we get paid 1/2 FEE if we arrive at game site and the game gets kicked before we take the field. However, once we take the field FULL game FEE. We do not even need a pitch because suppose someone gets hurt on that first pitch when the field conditions were unplayable.

One other thing in our assoictaion. If it's a nice sunny day but one team does not have enough players - we get FULL game fee because it's not our fault the team did not have a full compliment of players.

I would not work for this association.

Pete Booth

Whenever a league or association drafts its policies, they should have someone in the room who's in touch with umpiring.

Locally, I've had games where I've driven to the field, checked in with game management (usually the home coach or AD) and the sky opened up before I could even get dressed. Full fee.

The rules should be quite clear and then the umpires can decide whether to work that league/conference. If I drive an hour and then get to drive home, I'd better receive something for my time and trouble. They could've (in many cases) made a decision earlier.

Once I arrive at the field, I get a full game fee. It doesn't matter if the game is played or not nor does it matter how much of the game is played. Both umpires are paid in full per our association.

I made $115 for a 1:35 HS game today. Gotta love the state playoffs and 40¢/mile roundtrip travel money.

Games fees in MS
 

If I take time out of my day to drive to a field to do a game,I'm getting paid, regardless if we throw a pitch or not.My time is just as valuable as everyone else involved..No pitch full game fee.

I still haven't been paid (And probably won't) for a game the first week of May. It was supposed to be two games for a tournament at Team B's field, but Team A was actually the host of the tournament. My partner and I get there about 45 minutes or so before the scheduled start....no one at the field at all. It was a Saturday morning. We call the assigner's answering machine (He leaves cancellations on there), and it had been updated on Friday afternoon, so nothing about Saturday. We finally get ahold of an A.D. from another school that was in the tournament and he tells us the games were all washed on Friday. (It had not rained since Thursday night)

I emailed the A.D.s from both Team A and B. B's A.D. told me that even though they were having games at their field, A's A.D. was in charge of paying umpires. I got no reply from A's A.D. and the assignor tells me that he doubts I'll get paid because "They'll say they called the cancellation in". (Which even if they did, it never made it on the answering machine)

Very frustrating. I should be getting mileage and one game fee because they didn't call us when the games were washed.

Ditto.

Methinks your assignor owes you some cash...

Methinks you're right, but I don't want to push it too far in fear of pissing him off and not getting games.

Just from experience (thankfully not mine,) an assignor that doesn't give his umpires what is due is going to keep getting his unearned pound of flesh, and if you seriously worry about getting games because you try to get what is due you, why would you want to keep working for such a person? Try to find an association that has integrity.

I get what you mean. I might try and pursue it one more time and see how it turns out.

While I agree that it isn't the best policy, at least it's out in the open and you (and others) can decide whether it's worth it to work that league. If they can't get enough (quality) umpires because of the policy, they'll change it.

I think one league I work for has a policy of "50% if the game starts, plus 10% for each inning until an official game"

Umpires are paid ridiculously low fees. It's an insult to be paid what little we're already paid for going through what we go through to do a game. Measured against most vocations, it should pay three times what it pays per game. So, when we get squeezed, it is an insult tacked on an already insulting compensation rate.

I work in and around L.A. I sometimes drive as many as 80-to-100 miles round trip to do a game. Sixty miles is about average. We get zero for mileage. I have an SUV, so the gas mileage is rather poor (12-14 m.p.g.). When gas was $4.50 per gallon, I had some games that were costing me $20 just for gas.

We do this because we love it. I can think of only one thing that I would do for less money than I accept for umpiring. But in order to keep umpiring, the costs and sacrifices must be allayed somewhat by a reasonable fee. It needs to go up, not down. These guys who try to go on the cheap deserve the umpiring they eventually get.

my summer association
 

we have something similar...........$20 travel fee if not cancelled 1 hour prior to game time.......if stopped prior to official game...$20 travel +$3 an Inning....if stopped after official game point reached Full fee...

Are you guys kidding? No game no fee, that makes total and complete sense. If I hire the kid next door to mow my lawn , he gets paid when the lawn is mowed. If he starts and does not finish because of weather, sorry kid no pay. If I hire a guy to paint my house, fix my plumbing, wash my car, serve me a meal at Red Robin -- same deal, no work (or incomplete work) no pay. How can I require a standard from others, but not hold myself to that same standard. While we usually don't get paid on site (with very few exceptions) we wont get paid for any game that is weathered out before official. I have umpired a contest that was stopped in the fourth because of rain -- no pay. I have shown up at the field for a game to have the field rained out at game time -- no pay.

While I value much of what I read in these forums, Getting paid for no work is one topic which we may disagree. I fully expect some to take great offence at my stand on this topic -- this is the way it is done here, I expect it is done differently elsewhere. But I think the assigner mentioned by the original poster is right.

Welcome to America where all opinions are received and encouraged.

Do you ask the kid next door to come over and wait to see if you decide you want the lawn mowed, then tell him no after watching it rain for half an hour?

The game fee or half a game fee for showing up is used as much as a discouragement to that lame practice.

When I spend the time to get to a game and then wait a half hour for the home coach to decide if the game starts or not, I deserve compensation.

Trying hiring a plumber, have him hang around and do nothing and then tell him you changed your mind. If you don't get a bill for time and travel you're not sharing the experience that most of us have.

By the way, locally we get the travel fee and half a game fee if the game does not start and the travel fee and a full game fee after the first pitch.

Okay, profound and fair thinker, here's an opinion:

I already stated that I sometimes drive as many as 50 miles to a ballgame. I equip and insure myself at considerable cost. I buy books and manuals and subscriptions to better myself at my craft. On the occasion of a game, I give up work to take off early to go to a game. In addition to the two or more total hours of driving, each game also requires an hour of preparation and an hour of clean-up and maintenance at its completion. Then, of course, there's the laundering and pressing of the uniforms.

Now, if I drive 50 miles to do a game, and I suit up for that game, and it is not played, canceled without notice, or some such thing, it bears no resemblance to any of those lawn-mowing-house-painting-burger-slinging scenarios you chose to include in your specious comparison.

It is you who must be kidding. Obviously, your standards and codes are in need of refinement, and your way of seeing things begs for some nuanced views.

That's the analogy that occurred to me.

Ours is similar: no travel fee, but 1/2 to show up, full fee after 1 pitch.

I don't post much, but I have to step in and say something about this...

But what if you changed your mind and never told the lawn boy, painter or etc... that you didn't want them to do the job now once they showed up.

I'm in 3 associations. All 3 have the same policy. You show up, you get paid at least one game fee. Double header pay is reduced to single pay + travel. Our contracts with the schools require 4 hour notice for game cancellations and weather cancellations. Although this is not always enforced in more local assignments (which is fair) and enforced harder for long distance travels for other schools.

The coaches and AD's have the weather channel, weather.com and weather on their cell phones just like we do..... If they want to take on the chance of the rain and decide to have the crew still show up and then bang it before the game starts, we get paid.

Hell even the youth ball association here has the same policy.... The guys that run the youth league call in one of the associations I'm in and do a good job of implementing this policy as well to their youth association.

Same principle really as dentist, doctor, vet cancellation fee's... They did no work but still charge you for YOU not showing up...

If I'm going to set my time aside to WORK a game and then THEY cancel it, I'm getting paid. I could have gone in and picked up an extra shift at work and etc... One of my umpire buddies owns his own business and TAKES OFF EARLY from work when he goes to umpire games. He already takes a pay cut to umpire vs. his normal job!!! And now you don't want to pay anything at all???

House league... (90% of games start at 6:30pm)

League wide cancel prior to 4:30: No pay.
Umpire cancels game at field: Full pay, plus 1st crack to reschedule.
Umpire cancels/postpones mid-game: Ditto.
No one shows at field: Full pay.
Forfeit: Full pay.
Something weird happens (ie 4 umps, 1 field): Typically everybody gets full pay.

It is nice to have a league that is willing to be there for the umpires. We even had so many new guys this year they added the 2-man system to the next level down just to get guys more games (even when the numbers are down for participants).

Okay, fooling with a mans money, wife, truck, or beer are taboo topics.

The original post related a happening based upon an "act of God" not a change of mind. Heck, if they change their mind they pay. Don't all of your associations have some kind of fee or fine if you change your mind after accepting an assignment? I still believe that if the game is not played due to wind, rain, or snow you should not get paid. Look where I live, I got rained off 12 (game) days in a row his spring.

I totally agree with the advice from many on this topic, if not getting paid for rainouts is an issue for you then don't work for that association. The assigner was right, if you are only working for the money -- you are probably not a very good umpire. Now before any blow a head gasket answer the following question. What are the top five reasons you umpire? If you answered all five as money you have helped make my point, but if you answered anything else then why are you willing to walk because of money?. Yes I like the money I get for umpiring, this year I am taking my wife to Hawaii for Christmas thanks to umpiring, but money is not the only reason I umpire. I am willing to bet money is not the only reason any of you umpire (again you proved this point by simply participating in this forum, a place to share ideas and techniques with other umpires thereby making us all better umpires). Also, while I may not get paid for a rainout, there are still expenses associated with that rainout -- guess what? These expenses are tax deductable. So while I don't get paid, it really don't cost me anything in the long run.

Lastly with the economy in the crapper I have noticed a great influx of new officials, this year we experienced unprecedented growth, most of those guys are only for the money kind of guys and without exception every one of those money guys is a crappy "smtty" umpire. So if you can't live with this policy see ya, there are two (crappy) guys in the wings waiting for your position.

Do I spend any less time and resources getting to a game and standing around waiting a half hour plus while a decision is being made to play or not if the reason is a no show by a team, a fickle home coach, or rain?

No.

As I alluded to before, absent our policy, coaches were actually encouraged to keep games scheduled that they knew weren't going to be played because there was no penalty for doing so. Now, we get notice of cancellations due to weather usually two hours prior to game time.

Pfft. 50 miles one way for me is a CLOSE ballgame. I average 125-150 miles round trip.:D The joys of living out in the sticks.

Anyhoo, I can't speak to those who work in an association, but I've never had problems getting paid for a washout. Lucky I guess.

This is such an asinine statement, I will leave my comment to just that. Asinine!!!

Now, now...remember, it's for the kids!:p

I am not a kid mowing the lawn.

Good luck calling a plumber, having him come out, and changing your mind about using his services after he arrived.

What's to keep teams from letting the umpires arrive knowing that they *likely* won't play? Isn't your time worth something to you?

Actually, your post reminds me of people who say "what a great gig, making $60 for less than 2 hours work." I guess that my leaving work early, driving to the field, getting there early, etc. has no monetary value. I guess the money I spend on gear, association dues, training, etc. has no monetary value either. It's just "$X for only Y hours work."

You have a right to your opinion - that doesn't make it any less ignorant or wrong.

The value of the deduction for one single rainout date is possibly the weakest support for non-paying rainouts ever imaginable.

BuggBob,

Thank you for your highly entertaining post.

Funny stuff.

I was just wondering.... Does the assignor still get paid his assignment fee if the game is "...weathered out before official."?

The assigner (sic) isn't "right" - he's a joke.

JM

The assignor probably makes a few extra bucks when he assigns the rescheduled game.

Wow!

You're not an especially deep thinker, are you?

Let me tell you something about money and good umpiring. The difference in money between your youth ball games and high school or college game fee's are a lot of different.

If I was in it "only" for the love of umpiring, I would still be calling kid ball exclusively 5 min up the road.

Getting into higher game fee's usually requires being a "pretty good" umpire.... If the higher game fee's are not motivation to get "pretty good" then what is???

If you are doing it only "for the love of the game" then you just stay down there in the youth leagues and let us worry about the money.

Your comments are the most Asinine thing I've seen on here in a while. Game fee's for rain outs HELP umpires and is GOOD for umpiring. The best thing about game fee's for rain outs is that it makes the coaches and AD's give a **** about the umpires on some level enough to call them so YOU don't have to make a trip for nothing.

Besides, the league you are calling in obviously only looks at you as a monetary figure anyways trying to not pay you, why should you look at them any different?

I like higher-level games for the challenge and to watch a higher level of play from the best seat in the house. No matter what the fee is, it is inadequate, so it's essentially irrelevant.

The fee is relevant for the other reasons that you so eloquently stated. We must get paid something so that we can be respectable.

A few local guys were trying to argue that JV and Freshman games should be paid the same as varsity games. I found that argument ridiculous -- it's not just the time that's being rewarded, it's the skill required to work and stick at a particular level.

Frankly, money is one of the key reasons I packed in the 3 D3 conferences I worked the past 5 years. They simply didn't pay enough for the aggravation. $185 with no mileage for an 18-inning day that frequently lasted 6 hours (not a lot of good pitching, either) with a bunch of Earl Weaver wannabes - yeah, that was a whole lot of fun. And the 2-3 hour drives up front. If they worked 3-person, I'd do it, but having to do a plate job every single day and having to drive most of the time, not worth it to me. Although I'm not really doing it for the money, it's part of the picture of respect (or lack thereof) that you get. And AFAIC, hiring 2 umpires for NCAA baseball is about as little respect as a sport can get -- they'd never think of running less than 3 for basketball or 7 for football these days.

This year I worked a lot of HS doubleheaders on Saturdays and made $120 for 14 innings and was 30 minutes from the house.

You are right about this. I didn't mean to only make that point of view. What you said is a VERY good point.

I'd pay some of my game fee's back if I could grantee good pitching every game!!

My gut tells me that you wrote this to get a 'rise" out of everyone but if you are serious here is my take.

I agree with Rich. Using your scenario what's to stop the teams from not calling at all when games are cancelled, move to a different site, different time etc. The teams would 'walk all over" the umpires.

As Rich stated OUR job is to get to the game site preferably 30-45 minutes ahead of time.

SITCH: USING YOUR PHILOSOPHY

Team A realizes they will not have their studs present today so they decide to simply NOT show up. they tell the other coach but not the umpire assignor.

Assume Rich and I partners. We are leaving work etc. and now we get to the game and there are no teams present. According to your philosophy we should not get paid. We just left work (maybe early and used either vacation and or personal time that we had accrued so it is costing us money)

ANYTIME and any REASON the coaches wanted to cancel games with NO reprocussions they would.

the one thing I give kuddos for is this:

At least there is a policy. It might suck but it is written and now it's up to the members to either accept or reject it. Me personally I would reject it BUT if an umpire does accept the terms then they cannot squalk later on.

Pete Booth

Game #1 (Level of Play--Boys' H.S. Varsity): Final Score: Home-3, Visitor-2; Number of Innings: 6-1/2; Length of Game: 1 hr, 20 min; Game Fee: $60


Game #2 (Level of Play--Boys' H.S. Freshmen): Final Score: Home-15, Visitor-32; Number of Innings: 7; Length of Game: 3 hr, 20 min; Game Fee: $40


Rich:

I see your point, :D.

I had Game #2 years ago when the OhioHSAA had a 15-run rule.

MTD, Sr.

It's like I always say: If you want the 2-1, 75 minute game, make yourself a varsity umpire.

I work basketball and do between 35-40 games a season, all varsity. The JV game beforehand is usually, without a doubt, the more difficult game to call consistently. And yet I'd rather stay home than work one.

The only beast that's different is football. With one game a week, all Fridays, it's fun going out on Mondays and Thursdays and working subvarsity with the crew.

Rich:

You missed my point. I agree with you. But there are some of us that work all three levels (FR, JV, and VAR) during the course of the season, and when you get those three hour FR or JV games, you really earn your game fee.

MTD, Sr.

I don't know how you folks have time to work multiple levels. To me, looking at my schedule next season with 40 games (basketball) on it already, it looks very, very full.

Although I have a list with open dates sitting in front of me just in case I need it. ;)

In the spring for school baseball, we get the same for 9th, JV, and Varsity. Any 7 inning game is $55, anything shorter is $45. In the summer, all four levels of Legion ball pay the same, which is $50/game.

The last HC I tossed said something like "you making all this money to umpire you should learn the rules"... goodbye.

I had one tell me that he didn't know why they paid me. I just said that he sure didn't pay me very much.

"You can always tell how much class a man has if he brings up how much money either of you earns."

My dad told me that.

I think of it every time a participant or observer mentions money when it comes to umpiring a ballgame.

I learned a good reply over on the basketball forum: "Oh I umpire for free. They have to pay me to listen to knuckleheads like you."

Oh, that's good!

After being called on money, I had a partner say, "Why don't you take some of that money you're saving on us and buy yourself a rule book."