Never seen this before

David B · #1 (**permalink**) Fri May 22, 2009, 08:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron

Coach might have been working you. Apparently you can get some umpires to reverse a strike call.

I think this is really going on way too much. I've noticed the last couple of seasons that coaches now want to appeal "everything".

The only thing I can think of is that there are "lots of umpires" who are allowing them to appeal things that should "not" be appealed.

Thanks
David

archangel · #2 (**permalink**) Fri May 22, 2009, 08:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by David B

I think this is really going on way too much. I've noticed the last couple of seasons that coaches now want to appeal "everything".

The only thing I can think of is that there are "lots of umpires" who are allowing them to appeal things that should "not" be appealed.
Thanks
David

I kinda disagree. I believe that there are "lots of umpires" who, when asked to appeal to their partner, do so, when they should just stick with their own call instead....

johnnyg08 · #3 (**permalink**) Fri May 22, 2009, 08:52am

I agree with Dave B...sometimes we just have to tell the coach..."there's no way I'm asking my partner...he's not even supposed to be watching _______." Or "I am 100% sure of what I saw, I'm not asking him."

zm1283 · #4 (**permalink**) Fri May 22, 2009, 12:44pm

Speaking of check swing appeals. I was in the A position a few weeks ago with a left-handed batter up. The pitch is a ball and the batter check swings. The defense is hollering to "check him, check him!". I can't hear my partner but I see him telling the catcher that he's not about to appeal that. The defensive team was in the first base dugout, so the coaches were right there. The acted like they couldn't figure out why we couldn't appeal that. I just said "Guys, I would be guessing if I called that".

On another note, I was at a AA game on Monday night. The home team's batter (left-handed) check swings and the PU points with his left hand and hammers the strike. The U3 was in the B spot so I knew the PU wasn't asking for help. The guys down the row from us (They were self-described umpiring experts) kept going on about "That guy can't see that, how can he appeal that?!" I was going to correct them, but then I remembered the thing about blissful ignorance.

bob jenkins · #5 (**permalink**) Fri May 22, 2009, 12:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283

Speaking of check swing appeals. I was in the A position a few weeks ago with a left-handed batter up. The pitch is a ball and the batter check swings. The defense is hollering to "check him, check him!". I can't hear my partner but I see him telling the catcher that he's not about to appeal that. The defensive team was in the first base dugout, so the coaches were right there. The acted like they couldn't figure out why we couldn't appeal that. I just said "Guys, I would be guessing if I called that".

On another note, I was at a AA game on Monday night. The home team's batter (left-handed) check swings and the PU points with his left hand and hammers the strike. The U3 was in the B spot so I knew the PU wasn't asking for help. The guys down the row from us (They were self-described umpiring experts) kept going on about "That guy can't see that, how can he appeal that?!" I was going to correct them, but then I remembered the thing about blissful ignorance.

You shouldn't be guessing (or need to guess) from A, and the umnpire in B certainly could have made a call had he been asked.

zm1283 · #6 (**permalink**) Fri May 22, 2009, 02:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You shouldn't be guessing (or need to guess) from A, and the umnpire in B certainly could have made a call had he been asked.

I didn't guess, because he didn't ask. Are you saying that you can correctly rule on a checked swing from A with a left-handed batter up? Good luck. If my partner came to me on that he would have to pull my foot out of his rectum in the parking lot.

In the second scenario, he wasn't asked. That was my point. The moron down the row thought the PU was asking for a checked swing appeal with his left hand, when in reality he was pointing at the swing for a swinging strike call. I know that he can rule if asked, but he wasn't.

Ump Rube · #7 (**permalink**) Fri May 22, 2009, 03:13pm

Technically speaking you could be out in CF and make an appeal call. The overall driving idea being: did the batter strike at the pitch?

And yes, you can make a check swing call on a LHB from A. Especially if you saw the end-cap of the bat, then I would say the batter has struck at the pitch. (This would be a case where maybe the PU was blocked by F2 coming up and unable to see the swing/end of the swing).

[Edit: I am speaking in regards to 2-man mechanics. If it makes any difference.]

dash_riprock · #8 (**permalink**) Fri May 22, 2009, 03:16pm

You can easily see a swing on a lefty from the A (better than you can from the B or C). I believe PBUC is now experimenting with PU going to the wing umpire (3-man) on check swing appeals.

zm1283 · #9 (**permalink**) Sat May 23, 2009, 12:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

You can easily see a swing on a lefty from the A (better than you can from the B or C).

Then why in 3-man with a left handed batter up and R1 does the PU not check with the U1 and instead checks with U3 who is in the middle? If the U1 can see a lefty's check swing better, why bother checking with the guy in the middle?

archangel · #10 (**permalink**) Fri May 22, 2009, 03:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283

I didn't guess, because he didn't ask. Are you saying that you can correctly rule on a checked swing from A with a left-handed batter up? Good luck. If my partner came to me on that he would have to pull my foot out of his rectum in the parking lot.

BU in A can absolutely make a good appeal call on a lefthanders check swing. Im curious where in any book it says otherwise.....

johnnyg08 · #11 (**permalink**) Fri May 22, 2009, 04:55pm

those who say you can't probably haven't watched, played, or worked much baseball

Welpe · #12 (**permalink**) Fri May 22, 2009, 05:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283

I didn't guess, because he didn't ask. Are you saying that you can correctly rule on a checked swing from A with a left-handed batter up? Good luck. If my partner came to me on that he would have to pull my foot out of his rectum in the parking lot.

If you are working a game under OBR, the PU must grant the check swing appeal if requested by the defense. Not true in Fed, but it is something to keep in mind.

I'm not sure if you do this or not, but it is a fairly common misconception that the bat must travel past the front of the plate to rule that a batter did not check his swing (that he "went"). All you have the judge is if the batter offered at the pitch.

SanDiegoSteve · #13 (**permalink**) Fri May 22, 2009, 05:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283

I didn't guess, because he didn't ask. Are you saying that you can correctly rule on a checked swing from A with a left-handed batter up? Good luck. If my partner came to me on that he would have to pull my foot out of his rectum in the parking lot.

Had to rule many checked swings from A with a left-handed batter, and never once have I had a problem correctly ascertaining whether or not the batter made an attempt. Plus, I have never resorted to putting my foot up my partner's a$$ over it.

waltjp · #14 (**permalink**) Fri May 22, 2009, 07:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283

Are you saying that you can correctly rule on a checked swing from A with a left-handed batter up? Good luck. If my partner came to me on that he would have to pull my foot out of his rectum in the parking lot.

Which is why I include the following in my pregame when I'm working the bases -

If you want help on a check swing come to me regardless of where I'm positioned or who is batting and I'll give you what I got. I don't get crazy about it like some guys.

Rich · #15 (**permalink**) Sat May 23, 2009, 10:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283

I didn't guess, because he didn't ask. Are you saying that you can correctly rule on a checked swing from A with a left-handed batter up? Good luck. If my partner came to me on that he would have to pull my foot out of his rectum in the parking lot.

In the second scenario, he wasn't asked. That was my point. The moron down the row thought the PU was asking for a checked swing appeal with his left hand, when in reality he was pointing at the swing for a swinging strike call. I know that he can rule if asked, but he wasn't.

I would come to you every time I was asked. I can make that call from A just as easily as everywhere else. As others have said, the only criteria is: Do I think he offered? If I do, it's a strike. If not, it's a ball. No big deal. I've called strikes on LH batters from A in college games without any real fuss.