Obstruction ignored?
 

Runner on first. Batter hits one in the gap. First baseman and batter/runner make contact as he rounds first on the way to second. Batter/runner ends up on second and R1 stops at third.

Is the obstruction by the first baseman ignored because the batter/runner achieved the base he was attempting to acquire?

Thanks

In this type of obstruction, where it sounds like he was obstructed after touching 1B and no play was being made on him, at the end of the playing action the umpire makes any base awards necessary to nullify the obstruction. The award, if any, is not so much the base the runner was trying for, it's the base the umpire judges he would have reached if there was no obstruction. If, in this play, the umpire judged the batter would have made 2B without the obstruction, the obstruction is ignored.

I'm referring here to OBR-based rules. I think the Fed (high school) rule is slightly different.

Okay, I took my shot; everyone else can start picking this apart. :p

Pretty much what I would have said. If the umpire has any inkling that the BR could have possibly made it to 3rd, then he should award R1 home and the BR 3rd. It's a judgment call, and you want to err on the side of the offended team.

Technically you are still acknowledging the obstruction, but you in this case acknowledge that the runner achieved the base you felt he was entitled to...:D

In FED, all obstruction is "Type-B," or delayed dead ball (as OBR would also have in this case). Also, all OBS awards the obstructed runner at least his advance base, or more if needed to nullify the obstruction.

In this case, if you judged that the runner would have acquired 2B (which was also his advance base), no additional award would be appropriate under FED rules.

There should have been an obstruction call when the BR made contact with F3 ("That's Obstruction!"). That being said, R1 stopped at 3rd so the BR could go no further than 2nd. The obstruction is then ignored. If, however, the BR stopped and returned to 1st, the award would be 2nd base only (R1 at 3rd, remember?).

If there is obstruction on a following runner, the position of the lead runner may end up determining where the obstructed runner will be placed.

True, but the obstructed runner can also "force" an advance runner to the next base.

I don't understand. Example, please?

I think what Bob is saying is that if you feel a B/R need be awarded 2B on the play and R2 is there already, you can award him 3B to "open" up that base to award the B/R 2B.

That's two chicken dinners!!! Now knock that off!!!:p

I would be careful if I was you. If you have read one of my other threads http://forum.officiating.com/basebal...ther-kind.html you could tell that I tend to like chicken dinners. (any type of dinner works well with me though really) :D

That's where I'm confused. How can I think an obstructed BR would have attained second base when a preceding unobstructed runner is camped out there?

R1. Batter hits a "sure double." He doesn't see R1 returning to second in the belief that R2 missed the base. F3 obstructs BR as BR rounds first.

Put BR on second and advance R1 to third.

Award is minimum of one base. Technically (maybe if the contact with F3 is really big and knocks the runner down to the point where it can't be ignored) you could force the runner from second to third in order to award the base to the B/R. I would be hesitant to do so but maybe in that situation I might.

FED OBS, while similar to OBR Type B, has a one base award beyond what they've already achieved attached to it. Am I interpreting that correctly?

Here is a good example (at least in my mind)(I am going to steal Bob's situation) where you would HAVE to force R2 to third:

R1. Batter hits a "sure double." He doesn't see R1 returning to second in the belief that R2 missed the base. B/R turns around to return to first and runs into F3 who was trailing B/R on a designed defensive play. The ball is thrown to F3 who tags out the fallen B/R. We have obstruction. Put B/R on second and advance R1 to third.

Yes (in FED! I cannot speak for OBS)!

-Josh

Type B in OBR doesn't necessarily guarantee another base. That's the huge difference in FED...if you have OBS in FED, we have to use a bit more discretion in calling OBS because it's a mandatory award of another base even if the runner had no chance, desire to advance another base. Example R2 slightly rounds 2B and simply looks at F7 to see if he's got the ball. F6 impedes him...technically OBS...but is it right to give him 3B? I don't think so.

Bases loaded. F1 tries to pick off R2 at 2nd. Both F6 and F4 go to cover second base. While R2 is going back to 2nd, he is obstructed by F6. F4 applies the tag.

Obstruction on F6. R2 awarded third. R3 forced home.

Just to be clear: this would happen ONLY for FED. In OBR (and codes based on it), R2 would be awarded 2B, the base to which he was returning.

based upon this post you have Type B correct? Type A OBR OBS would give R2 a base award correct?

Reading bossman's play description, I think this would be Type A obstruction in OBR. Do you disagree?

Welpe,

Per bossman's description, this is definitely "Type A" Obstruction under OBR rules; it's an immediate dead ball and the R2 would be awarded 3B and the R3 would be awarded home because he was "forced" by R2's award.

JM

WHAT? Have you suddenly become a coach, or a mom?

A play is being made on the obstructed runner. Type A, eh?

Dude, this is Type A. R2 gets 3B here. Pay attention. :rolleyes:

FED obstruction is Type B in OBR. The difference in FED is that when you call obstruction in FED, you will award at least 1 base in the forward direction (the part I hate). Example: R1 dives back to 1st on a pickoff and is obstructed by F3. In FED, R1 must go to 2nd base - there is no choice or question (now you know why I said I hate this).

it's not exactly type B OBR as you're stating. you nicely described the difference. I think we agree.

However, wouldn't the scenario you're describing above be Type A, since a play is being made on R1 diving back to the base?

Now that's being your own worst critic!:) I like it, and I like it a lot.:p

Steve,

I thought he was bein' a little hard on the guy. ;)

JM

In OBR, yes. But in FED, there is no Type A. All obstruction in FED is delayed as in OBR Type B.

I don't see why that award is bad....If you don't penalize the defense for OBS, why wouldn't they obstruct every time?

Yes, but all obstruction in FED has a minimum award, as in OBR Type A.

imo, it's wrong to say "Fed (or NCAA) is like OBR type x" -- they just are what they are and if we work multiple rules sets, we need to know the multiple rules.