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-   -   When did they change the balk rule? (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/53174-when-did-they-change-balk-rule.html)

cardinalfan Fri May 15, 2009 10:07am

I prefer "That's enough, coach" with the stop sign as opposed to "Not another word". That's gives me freedom to discern if the next "word" is legitimate.

Kevin Finnerty Fri May 15, 2009 10:39am

Normally, I don't say that to a coach; I have told it to players a few times, and a couple of them got tossed. But this guy was an assistant and was truly already supposed to be tossed for what he had said. So it was almost a part of the tossing procedure.

I think I'll continue to avoid saying that to a head coach. I'm definitely more of a stop-sign-and-that's-enough-coach kind of guy.

UMP25 Fri May 15, 2009 10:43am

I've used a variety of orders, from "Knock it off" to "That's enough." That usually silences them. They know continual complaining may result in them being ejected.

Again, that's one of the limitations of a baseball umpire. We can't issue technical fouls, we can't issue yellow cards, we can't flag them for unsportsmanlike conduct. We can only really eject them if they get out of hand or do something the rules state they're not permitted to do.

socalblue1 Fri May 15, 2009 11:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty (Post 602361)
Normally, I don't say that to a coach; I have told it to players a few times, and a couple of them got tossed. But this guy was an assistant and was truly already supposed to be tossed for what he had said. So it was almost a part of the tossing procedure.

I think I'll continue to avoid saying that to a head coach. I'm definitely more of a stop-sign-and-that's-enough-coach kind of guy.

Kevin, you baited a coach!

UMP25 Fri May 15, 2009 12:00pm

:eek::eek::eek:

Kevin Finnerty Fri May 15, 2009 12:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by socalblue1 (Post 602387)
Kevin, you baited a coach!

Wait, wait, wait.

Did I bait that gigantic blowhard??

Come on, really?

Naw, I'm not putting that in the baiting catalog. That's a precise order on how to behave. Restriction that was not followed. Baiting would be something like, "Come on, Coach, say one more word ..."

Oh, and a marvelous post script to the I-played-professional-ball blather: No man by the name that he goes by ever played a minute of minor league ball for any major league affiliate. Maybe he's the first one to play pro ball who's somehow not listed on the minor league database, but I'm betting that he just lied and he's an even bigger blowhard than he seemed. And he's already the biggest blowhard ever. I mean, the gods and Steve couldn't have sent a bigger, dumber one.

cardinalfan Fri May 15, 2009 12:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty (Post 602400)
Wait, wait, wait.

Did I bait that gigantic blowhard??

Come on, really?

Naw, I'm not putting that in the baiting catalog. That's a precise order on how to behave. Restriction that was not followed. Baiting would be something like, "Come on, Coach, say one more word ..."

Oh, and a marvelous post script to the I-played-professional-ball blather: No man by the name that he goes by ever played a minute of minor league ball for any major league affiliate. Maybe he's the first one to play pro ball who's somehow not listed on the minor league database, but I'm betting that he just lied and he's an even bigger blowhard than he seemed. And he's already the biggest blowhard ever. I mean, the gods and Steve couldn't have sent a bigger, dumber one.

Kev, you didn't bait the coach... but you did get baited into responding to Socalblue! :D

UMP25 Fri May 15, 2009 01:44pm

If Kevin is going to claim that he did not bait the coach, he cannot claim I baited my head coach last weekend, especially because all I did was address a coach's contentions that I could not call a balk in a specific game situation. I asked a coach when I could call said balk. He could have easily replied, "Uh, I don't know" or something similar. Instead, he pops off with the "You're phucking...".

socalblue1 Fri May 15, 2009 02:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty (Post 602400)
Wait, wait, wait.

Did I bait that gigantic blowhard??

Come on, really?

Naw, I'm not putting that in the baiting catalog. That's a precise order on how to behave. Restriction that was not followed. Baiting would be something like, "Come on, Coach, say one more word ..."

Oh, and a marvelous post script to the I-played-professional-ball blather: No man by the name that he goes by ever played a minute of minor league ball for any major league affiliate. Maybe he's the first one to play pro ball who's somehow not listed on the minor league database, but I'm betting that he just lied and he's an even bigger blowhard than he seemed. And he's already the biggest blowhard ever. I mean, the gods and Steve couldn't have sent a bigger, dumber one.

Warning a coach or player with "One more word ..." is baiting. Human nature is going to cause a response, resulting in either an ejection or escalation, thus my baiting comment.

Not that baiting is always bad. It's simply a tool to help obtain a quick resolution to a problem before it can get out of hand. In this case you knew the coach had to go & found a way to make that happen sooner rather than later. No problem form me there.

UMP25 Fri May 15, 2009 03:06pm

I agree, socal.

cardinalfan Fri May 15, 2009 03:28pm

There isn't this much talk about baiting on the frickin' Bassmasters website. :D

I do think there's a small difference. "One more word..." is backing the coach into a corner. I don't use it, because human nature will make him want to respond defensively. But he does have a choice.
"Why don't you say one more word..." would be obvious baiting. Then if he does what you asked him (sarcastically) to do, he gets tossed.

I'm tired of this discussion. Party on...

cardinalfan Fri May 15, 2009 04:31pm

Dang, guys. We could have saved a lot of bandwidth if we had just watched this video first:

YouTube - How to Be a Baseball Umpire : Umpire Etiquette

johnnyg08 Fri May 15, 2009 11:52pm

"we are no longer going to talk about X,Y,or Z" state what you're no longer talking about...anything after that could be judged as prolonged and you now have grounds to eject or in FED...put the ol' seatbelt on him.

Kevin Finnerty Sat May 16, 2009 09:28am

Uh, he was an assistant. These are head coach techniques. The assistant had already done it, and I was informing him of what the restrictions were. If it was a head coach, there would have been a different approach, because they're allowed to speak to us.

Why is that key difference seemingly unrecognized?

johnnyg08 Sat May 16, 2009 09:39am

wasn't commenting on your interaction with the assistant.


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