Play at the Plate...your call?
 

This was friday night...Tex v Tex A & M
Play at the plate. Mr Yeast making the call. First video is a wider shot. 2nd is a little tighter, but seems to lean towards a safe. Was PU in the right position for this?



YouTube - Texas A&M vs t.u. Baseball Terrible Call at Home Plate



TexAgs.com - A&M Baseball and Softball

Would you be asking if the call went in favor of your team?

Maybe he would've had a better view if the runner's teammate hadn't decided to get in the way.

Hey, uh ... excellent umpiring ... right on it ... uh, great angle ... no wonder he gets the big games.

How's that?

Dave is an excellent umpire.

In the first video you can see that he began to move to his right to get a better angle, and then was literally pushed backwards and to his left by who appears to be the on deck batter and, consequently, had to make a call from a less than desirable angle.

Sh!t happens. The offense has themselves to blame.

Let the whining commence.

What? Well, since my "team" is the Angels...and they werent playing, Id have to give you a big fat no on that one.....

Too much lucky charms this morning? I happened to be watching the game yesterday on Fox, Yeast missed a steal at third, and they referenced the play from friday night. I was curious, so I found a couple videos and posted on here.

Just like too many others on here, making a comment that has nothing to with the OP. Where, anywhere in that post did I make any comment remotely associated with bias towards one of the teams?

yep, offense needs to get out of the way and let the umpire make his call. we have the benefit of overhead video. PU did not. Whining does you no good here. Teach your players to get out of the way of a live play. That player had no business being where he was. Moving on. What was the call anyway? Runner looked safe since I had the advantage of not trying to look through a human to make the call from field level.

Out was the call

He missed the call, but in real time it looks like F2 made a great play and the runner hit his leg with the tag.

Only in slow motion did i see the F2 make the tag late giving runner time to make it to home.

But, the ground view umpire could not see the F2 tag so I'm sure it looked out, and as others noted he was trying to move the runner out of the way.

He was really left in "no man" land.

Thanks
David

I have no sympathy for the offense "if" the umpire missed the call. The base runner that scored ahead of the play should be the one (if anyone) that hears it from the OC. I counted two Aggies standing around cluttering up the HP area. How many players are the offense allowed to have in the field of play at one time? What is required of the scoring runner once he has scored? What about the on-deck hitter? Isn't he supposed to be in the on-deck circle?

This is the reason why I wish FED would put a rule in to keep on-deck batters and runners that just scored OFF OF THE DIRT! It seems like at least once a game I'm telling kids to get out of the way on a potential play at home because they stand very close to home plate and really get in the way.

Usually, the on-deck batter comes to signal the runner on whether he needs to slide or not.

That said, I still think they need to be off the dirt.

yes, but coach needs to coach their kids where to stand. In front of the umpire, is not a good idea. Off of the dirt, seems like a good plan. Also coach them to leave the bat alone.

My initial reaction to the first video was OUT, as it appeared that the left hand of the runner got blocked off by the left leg of the catcher. Plus, the runner reached in with his right hand after getting tagged.

Factor in the teammate, that may have blocked his view, and he's way out. If it's even remotely close, and an someone, who shouldn't be there, gets in my way and blocks my view, he's going to be out.

Now I look at the different angle, and see why some might think otherwise. That's fine, but from the PUs perspective, I see an out.

p.s. there needed to be some music for those guys to dance to.

[QUOTE=chuckfan1;600988]This was friday night...Tex v Tex A & M
Play at the plate. Mr Yeast making the call. First video is a wider shot. 2nd is a little tighter, but seems to lean towards a safe. Was PU in the right position for this?
QUOTE]3BLX seems a better position for runner coming home with throw from the left side of the field. 1BLX behind a runner who just scored and is in the umpire's way is not a good spot.

[QUOTE=DG;601083]1. Dave attempted to move to his right but was blocked by the on deck batter and pushed back to his left.

2. It was the on deck batter who was in the way, not the runner who scored. Watch again.

14 just scored. He was the one in the way. I saw no attempt to move to right. He came from the left of scene and appeared to be trying to move the runner who scored out of the way to his left. It was a bad position for the call, which was the original question. I don't know who #4 was, maybe on deck batter, but he was right side of scene and out of site for the play at the plate.

[QUOTE=DG;6010833BLX seems a better position for runner coming home with throw from the left side of the field. 1BLX behind a runner who just scored and is in the umpire's way is not a good spot.[/QUOTE]

Since the catcher didn't move, Dave read this as a "block" type play (rather than a "swipe tag" type play). 1BLX is proper for the block.

The point of the plate ...
 

After watching very few big league games over the past few years and working as a fill-in in the PCL and talking to friends that are going up and down I have decided that while MLB has no officially changed the way umpires take plays at the plate, the umpires on the field have.

It seems to me that the start at 3BLX and adjust their angle from there on both swipes and blocks. I have tried this this year and I love it. I usually end up some where between the middle of 3BLX and the 1BL all the way up to in fair territory. It is amazing the looks you can get on both plays, and I have also noticed I have yet to run into a member of the offense there.

If you google clips of plays at the plate or look a pics of MLB umpires, do a photo news search of umpire, you will see just about every play of both types taken from the area that I am talking about. I hope that someone comes out with this mechanic in writing so that it can help people get the best look possible based on thourough analysis.

Just my 2 cents.

Is the catcher blocking the plate without the ball?

Yes and no! He is blocking without the ball, but the ball gets to him before the runner makes contact with his leg. It is a baseball play.

Check these out, almost same type of play:

San Diego Padres' catcher Nick Hundley, center, cannot tag out ... - Yahoo! News Photos

Home plate umpire Angel Campos, left, looks on as Texas Rangers ... - Yahoo! News Photos

Any rule dictating where the on-deck batter can or cannot be during the play?

Was Dave in PERFECT position for that particular play? Maybe not. Did he get in proper position for what he had? Absolutely. Knowing Dave he will be the hardest on hisself after reviewing the play. He is an outstanding umpire and misses very few. We all miss a few during the course of a season and few have the benefit of multiple angle replays to review. Great job Dave!!!

Let's try to reconstruct this as a lesson is '$*&% happens' so be prepared.

1. #14 scores easily. Turns and picks up the bat. Looks up and see runner & throw approaching plate.

2. PU is close to point of plate. Observes #14 score & on-deck hitter go to expected place (3BLE) to guide approaching runner.

3. PU reads play & starts moving to 1BLE. Does not anticipate previous runner that had cleared the bat t5o step back toward plate to signal approaching runner.

4. PU tangles with previous runner and is unable to reach desired position & is distracted. Likely partially blocked from play. Misses what should have been a fairly easy call.

What can we learn from this, orher than expect the unexpected?

My take: PU (Dave Y.) was too determined to reach a specific spot 1bLE that he lost his window of opportunity to adjust to the changing situation.

Let's have your thoughts as a group please.

I see what you are saying, but this was not a fairly easy call from any position. You have the runner sliding through F2's legs (always tough to see in real time), you have F2 making the catch but not applying the tag until late, (very hard to see from either 1BLE or 3BLE).

He was in the best position for a block type of play, just so happened that a player got in his way, probably at the very last second.

Thanks
David

Actually he was passed 3BLE, and I would agree it was entirly due to the players actions. The best place to be if you were setting this up as a traditional block play and you are reading this guy sliding wide, Dave didn't get to make that read due to the player, would have been a step or two short of 3BLE, the reason is the box theory. If you are #BLE or past on this slide, you have the players body between you and the plate when he tagged it. That is why I have started using the mechanic that you see many of the big league guys using that puts you 1BLE all the way into fair territory. I think by working here you will almost always be able to slide and find your window.

I would agree....(let he with no sin cast the first stone) The object of seeing plays like this is to learn from them. If you are already perfect, then good for you. If you choose to continue to get better then ponder and learn. Dave would want nothing less.

My call
 

For the umpires on this site that would like my take on the positioning question and what my take aways were for this situation, you can email me. I think most of you have my email address and would happy to share my perspective. I hope you all understand why I am not comfortable posting anything in a forum like this. I would be more than happy to share what I have learned and hope it would help you.

Dave

Oh, you do actually return emails?....funny you've igonred what five, six emails as well as two calls about returning my deposit from your clinic last October. :mad:

D'oooohhhh!!!


Well, Dave, do you have the man's deposit??

you didn' actually believe he would respond now did you?