Time limit games
 

When working games that have time limit rules, do you keep track of the “official” start time, even if you are not specifically required to by rule. Wondering what other guys do, or have run into.

Unless there is a tournament director or some other "non-coach" assigned to do it, I announce the start time to both HCs at the start of the game.

I let them know the start time at the pregame conference and them let them know when we have about 15 minutes remaining.

I never keep the time but that's because the partner I work with always has his watch. We let them know the official start time between the bottom and top of the first and when there is 15 minutes remaining, as FTVMartin said.

How do you let them know at the pregame conference? Wouldn't the time start when you put the ball in play to start the game?

-Josh

The start Time is when the plate conference meeting is finished and F1 starts his warm-up throws.

Pete Booth

We use the first pitch as the start time, as they do in MLB. The scorekeeper handles the time, and I'll relay it to both benches on the first changeover.

Each league should designate when the start time is. If they don't then:

Under OBR:

4.02 "The players of the home team shall take their defensive positions, the first batter of the visiting team shall take his position in the batter’s box, the umpire shall call 'Play' and the game shall start."

Under NCAA:

Rule 5
Starting the Game
SECTION 1. "The game begins when the umpire-in-chief calls 'Play.'"

Under FED:

4-1-5 "The game begins when the umpire calls 'Play' after all infielders, pitcher, catcher and batter are in position to start the game." I wonder why the outfielders don't have to be in position?

Be Clear
 

The league that I work for uses both a time-limit on games (no inning starts after 2:10 from start of game, no inning start within 10 minutes of the scheduled start time of the next game on the field) and a curfew (no inning start after 8:40pm on unlighted fields, no inning starts after 10:30pm on lighted). And one of the most important things that I have found to stress to coaches is that I have the official time. No matter what someone's cell phone says. I tell them what I have on my watch (a stopwatch that keeps time as well) at the pregame conference, so that everyone is on the same page.

Rich: This provision might be intended to allow for the possibility that a team doesn't field any outfielders at the start of the game (e.g., if they're all infielders for the lead-off batter).

We use time of first pitch. I usually have the home book, who 9/10 times has a watch, write down the time.

I show both coaches my watch, which will be in my ball bag, and it will be the official time and we agree on start time as the plate meeting breaks up. I generally add one minute and say "by the time we get started it will be...." They then generally look at their watches to get a comparison to what their watch has.

I announce "game time is...and it starts now" as we break up the plate meeting. We've been instructed to start the time at that point.

I have a clock/timer on my indicator so I have it with me at all times (put it in my pocket when on the bases).

I have the official time and announce that time has expired when my timer reaches 0:00 (or real close). Trust me, they're keeping track and will raise Cane if you short them 1 minute.

At one park they have a timer on the score board - everyone knows how much time is left.

Interesting points from all of you. Let me say that I do not agree with Rich Ives for a timed game as going by Rule Book Game Start allows the home team to perform their warm up off the clock. I don't care if you limit the pitcher to 8 pitches, he his still off the clock if you do it this way.

Remember, baseball is a non-timed sport, so if you are going to set a clock to it, everything that the teams do must be timed. Therefore, I agree with starting the clock at the end of the plate meeting is the only fair way for both teams. Now if it is a cold morning and the home coach wants a couple of more warm up throws for his prize pitcher, its all on the clock!

I was passing through a small town last weekend and went past a ball field where it looked like they were playing little kids softball. The scoreboard had a football-like clock and was counting down. I figured it was the game time. First time I had seen anything like that.

I don't work time limit games often, but when I do, I treat them just the same as any other game. I don't hurry people up any more, I don't limit trips to the mound (or break them up any earlier), etc. It's just a game with an un-natural condition attached to it and I do not entertain requests from other teams to speed things along just so that team can bat again.

I compromise. I give a minute after the plate conference for the home pitcher's warmup on the mound. I'm not pulling my watch out on the first pitch, so I move it ahead a minute from the end of the conference and that's the time it starts. If the home pitcher takes a bit longer, well, that part is on the clock.

Ozzy, I said the league should determine the start time but if they don't then go to the rule book.

You can't let each individual umpire make up his own definition.

Rich, did you read my post? I specifically addressed why going by the book is unfair by allowing one team to preform a function off the clock when the other team will be doing the same thing on the clock! You above all the others are a proponent of fair play with your connection to youth sports so think about what I am saying.

Yes I read your post. You said you disagreed with using the rule to determine the start time.

It's nice to know why, but your approach does fall into the category of making up a rule to suit your personal belief. You can't apply 9.01(c) or its equivalents because it's already covered in the rules.

"Fair" is applying the same rules to both teams. Unless the schedule is strange, each team will be home half the time and visitor half the time and subject to the same rules. The official start time affects the teams equally. That's "fair".

On the same accord, baseball was never designed to be a timed game, either so no matter how you work it, there is going to be some form of "making it up as you go along". The rules of baseball (OBR,FED & NCAA) have nothing to give the umpire crew a clue when to start a clock. When to start the game, yes! I say that the warm up of the home team is part of the clock because it just makes sense. Every other inning has a warm up and they are part of the clock so why not the home team's in the 1st inning?

This is why I hate dealing with anything outside the rules and "League rules".

Baseball is not timed - if you want to time it, then you have to time EVERYTHING.

Peace!

What's the basis for the "time of game" listing in the box socre? Is it the end of warm-ups, the time of the first pitch, something else?

Per an official scorer (Atlanta Blue):

We have had this very debate in the press box!

MLB has instructed scorers to use the time of the first pitch. I argue that this is a mistake, that it should be the time that the umpire puts the ball in play, as that is the point that the game "starts". But MLB didn't really care about my disagreement.

Suppose the pitcher licks his fingers while on the mound before the first pitch. A ball is added to the count, BUT THE GAME HASN'T STARTED YET according to MLB.

Despite my logic, MLB uses first pitch.

But when I'm in charge .......

When I work tournament ball over the summer, I do review the speed up rules and encourage both managers to appropriately plan to warm up their pitchers in between innings if the catcher is not ready.

One of the challenges I have encountered during timed tournament games is unitnentional, intentional stalling. For example a legal substitution for the catcher during the middle of an inning. How do you handle situations like that?

MLB wants the Start Time and the End Time of the game for the records. This has no bearing on the game itself, it is simply used as statistics. This thread is about TIMED GAMES meaning you have a certain amount of time to either complete the game or you live with the results. Timed games use clocks to tick off the time alloted as in a 15 minute clock for a football quarter.

Baseball was never designed to be run by a clock, that is why there are so many discussions and disagreements (such as the one between Rich & I). There will never be an agreement on this as he wants to go by a rule book that was never designed nor designated to be used with a clock. I on the other hand want all action of both teams as part of the timed action. Would it really make a difference? Probably not, but I stand on my conviction of all action of the teams being put under the clock.

Better yet, tell the TD to stick the clock where the sun don't shine and let's play a leisurely game of baseball the way it was designed!

I work one league that has timed games, this year, but not last year or in year's past. Umpires in this league have been lobbying for timed games for some time, because without it the teams have no incentive to hussle on and off and keep things moving along. I worked a game last year that lasted over3 hours, a seven inning game.

Most of the games are worked within the time limit. I had one last week that the 2 hour time limit was up after only 4 innings, but league rule says you must play 5 regardless of time limit so we played another. Final score was same as it was after 4, 28-14.

Time starts when PU says "play" so that is why I give the coaches a "projected" start time at the end of the plate meeting, to give pitcher his warmups. I have forgotten to do this before and when that happens I pull my little watch out of my ball bag just before the first pitch and tell them game time start after the first half inning. It's never a big deal, at the beginning of a game, it's only a big deal as time is running out.

I don't work timed games, but I occasionally go out to watch Jr. & Sr. Babe Ruth games at the local park during the summer.
What you described drives me insane. This is big boy baseball - 14 yr olds & up. I constantly see coaches make fools of themselves and the game by some of the silliest stall methods they can think of.

As an umpire, I don't see anything you can do unless your local assoc. has rules guarding against this unsportsmanlike coaching.

The problem with using the first pitch as start time is you have now given one team an advantage.

The HT F1 gets to throw his warm-up pitches UNTIMED whereas the VT F1 throws his warm-ups TIMED Suppose the HT is LAZY and takes their "sweet time" getting onto the field or F2 isn't ready yet etc.

You do not RESET the clock after the top of one is complete so that the VT F1 gets FREE warm-ups.

It's simple, after Plate meeting is finished we tell BOTH coaches it's 4:30 and the clock STARTS at that point. if the HT wants to "dilly dally" on their way out the clock is ticking.

Pete Booth

And every team gets this "free" time at half of their games.

Whether the clock has started or not, don't the rules still govern how long they have to do their warm up pitches? Even if the clock hasn't started, you can still umpire right?

We give both starting pitchers all the time they need in the first inning. After that, it's one minute on the changeovers. It works, and may add an extra 30 seconds to the game.

My issue with times games is not what the official start time is but when does the game end. All tournament youth competitive games that I have umped are timed, except for the final championship game. The bigger issue to me is when does the game officially end. Rules state: "1 hour and 40 mins. or 6 innings which ever comes first. Complete game after 4."
Example - Home team is winning after 5 innings, third out made by home team with 30 seconds remaining. Do you start another half inning with the visiting team coming up to bat? This will push the game time well past the 1hr. 40 mins. If VT ties the game then you have another half inning to play giving the HT another at bat. So, does the game end before the VT takes the field. Some tournaments state, if there is any time left after the third out is made by the HT and HT is winning you must continue play with the VT coming to bat. So, if there is 30 seconds or 1 minute left after the third out, you know the next pitch will not start until another 2 -3 minutes have past so now you have passed the 1 hour 40min time frame to start another inning. This is where many of the coaches start playing games as you know, to either stall or speed up the game so another inning will not start or forces you to start another inning. Are there any less complicated ways to handle this and being fair to both teams?

In exhibition tournaments I've seen "slow pitch" related rules where you put a runner on second base, 1 out, modify the beginning count...these are good rules, esp for keeping the tournament on schedule.

Yeah, by using the phrase "no new inning," which you didn't mention, so I'll assume that's not in effect in the games you're discussing.

Around here, all the rec leagues, including AAU, are timed, and so are the adult games. Maybe another of our guys will correct me if I'm wrong - I know they're out there - but to my recollection, nearly all of them say "no new inning after X:XX" Some also include a drop-dead time, and some completely bollock-up the wording with other clauses that introduce confusion, but it's mostly the no new inning thing.

Me, if the HT is winning when we hit that time-limit, then we're done. I've known others to say you should still play that out, but to me, it's the same as the winning run being scored in bottom-7, or bottom-9 - the VT can't come back to win, since they can't start the next inning, so we're done.

My main b--ch about time limit games is the complete lack of reality by the leagues. If they have 2, 3, whatever, 2:00 games they want played, can you guess how they schedule them? Right - at 10:00, 12:00, 14:00, etc. (Remember, it's "no new inning after 2:00") It'd be one thing if they were new umpire crews every game, so he could "change lines" like hockey, but you just get behind. Which puts pressure on the umpires to get the next game rolling, but we're trying to get back to the cars to change. Oy.....

Then I think when your assigner works w/ the tournament director, he needs to tell them to schedule a transition time for the umpires. Around here, they always schedule time between games to at least drag the field. I don't think the umps should ever be pressured to "hurry" because a game ran long...I think they need to respect the fact that they're running late but I think it probably end there.

This isn't just for tourneys, though. This is for all rec-ball; most of the leagues around here don't any have sense of perspective. On the other hand, in Pony, at least, the time-limit is age-group dependent. (The younger levels are 1:30, 1:40, and such.) So I think they put it at 2 hours generically to cover it all.

Most teams get it. And we try to tell the incoming teams that we're the crew for the next game, and we have to get changed. But another guy in my association told me he and his partner were approached at their car by some nitwit coach Saturday because it was 11:20, and "uh, we're supposed to start at 11:00." Duh, coach.

I hear you but depending upon how many games each crew has it's possible to limit the change-overs.

Say you and your partner are scheduled for 4 games. Each of you is going to do 2 plates, therefore, you only need one change-over.


If you only have the 2 games then perhaps you can work it out where you take the 2 plates on say Saturday and your partner takes the 2 plates on Sunday.

Bring plenty of fluids, a quick snack etc. so that you can be ready to go in say 5 minutes.

It works out real well if there are 3 of you who are covering the ENTIRE day's games. Each umpire will then get plenty of rest and a PU ready to go when the game ends.

In addition during these tournaments you get the Mercy Rule and can pick up time that way.

In any event in a 2 hour time limit game I agree the games should be scheduled 1/2 hour apart. In other words 9AM for game one 11:30 AM for game 2 so on and so forth. At the very minimum at least a 15 minute differential

which leads us back to when the clock starts.

In your example the clock better be starting as soon as the plate meeting ends otherwise you can get really backed up.

Summary: If you can, one person should do 2 plates to limit the change-overs. HOWEVER, with that said, it's only a GAME so make certain you and your partner have plenty of fluids and something to eat.

Pete Booth

I think to expect that a guy work two plates b2b in a two man crew is very silly.

I did that for a while on the softball side. I found it silly as well and I'm glad I don't do it anymore.

PS-did I mention they were ONE-umpire games?

We do it every weekend.

As stated, it limits change over and it's a whole lot easier to change once than it is to change, then have to change back, only to change again -for 4 games. Besides, they're time limit games and we take a short break between them.

I don't see the problem, but I'm used to it.

i guess if you're doing 4 games and a time limit, it's probably not that bad

I guess you do not work many games or your association has an abundance of umpires so each crew only gets 1 maybe 2 games per day. That's not how it is in my area.

In a tournament with time limit games it's not uncommon to have 4 games each day (nice pay-day)

I do not know about you but I would rather change ONCE rather then TWICE.

In addition you MAY get one game with the Mercy rule.

It's no BIG deal.

IMO, the optimum solution is to have 3 guys cover the ENTIRE day, that way each umpire gets plenty of rest.

In a nutshell I do not understand your comment as it's NOT SILLY but PRACTICAL

Pete Booth

Its about the Money
 

As you all know in these youth tournaments, the game spacing is not about us getting a break or the warm up time for teams. It is about scheduling as many games as possible to gain more teams which means more money. Granted we get paid from those tournament fees. Some of these tournaments go into the wee hours on Saturday and Sunday nights. Last weekend we had a tournament in my area where the last game on Sat ended at midnight and the Sun games were starting at 0900 and the last game for Sunday started at 7 pm., this was a little extreme. And there was only a 20 minute rain delay over the weekend. So much for Timed games.

locally for me it is Silly...we work as much as we want to work in terms of games...I probably wouldn't work 4 games even if I had the opportunity, but that's just me...but I don't think we'd ever do 4 games in a day...whenever we work a 2-man DH here, we're each doing a plate. your way seems practical and I guess if that's how you roll in your area and it works...that's awesome.

If I am just working 2 games, normal schedule, my partner and I will switch up between games. But if it is a tournament schedule (15 min or less between scheduled game times), I am all for back-to-back plates. Heck, I've worked B2B when only scheduled for 2 games! It is the easiest way to keep them on schedule and avoid working past midnight!

More than two games, I am definitely with Pete....I'd much rather change gear only once. Two weeks ago, I was scheduled for 5 games at a tourney. I had the first two with one partner and the last 3 with another. Took the
1st can and when Partner #1 said he wasn't feeling that great, took the 2nd one too. Game runs a bit late and I visit with Partner #2 toward the end of that one and tell him I will keep it on for game #3 as I grab a few Advil out of my back pocket (fans have no idea how sore the feet get when you NEVER sit down during a game).

Game 3 (and third plate) go extra innings and tourney supervisor says rain is heading our way, so guess who does the 4th plate so we can get the game in? You bet, I am a plate wh**e anyway. As a reward for my sacrifice, the baseball gods give me a spread early and we retire to chill for an hour, switch gear, watch a few rain drops, and then come back to do game #5 on time!

New record for me - 4 plates in a row!