out or safe cant find in book
 

pitch is hit stop is made throw to 1st is dropped fielder pulls foot from base,he does mannage to regain possesion of ball, but its is in his throwing hand reaches and tags 1st with glove... out? or safe?

Out on a force.?.?

Out. If he had touched the base with his foot on a force play, would his foot have been holding the ball? So what difference does it make which hand the ball is in? Answer: It doesn't.

out or safe
 

one guys reply was safe glove is considered equipment, and when foot pulled from bag eliminated force...i never even reconsidered! OUT!!

Rule 6.05 (j) After a third strike or after he hits a fair ball, he or first base is tagged before he touches first base.

(Notice no mention of which hand the ball is in.)

Ask the "guy" if F3 secures the ball and pulls his foot but reestablishes it while the runner is 5' away, does this "eliminate the force", too? :eek:

Of course, there is no "force" on the batter-runner to 1st base and it doesn't matter what part of the body F3 tags the base with, as long as he has secure possession of the ball.

My God! Some people will just make up rules to justify their fantasies!

In OBR, read 2-Tag. Note the different requirements for tagging a runner and tagging a base.

That's a distinction I have made once in my career. 18u travel ball. One team was unbelievably good and the other was not. The good team was up by about twenty early in the game and was showing up the other team at every opportunity. There was nothing that crossed the line and warranted ejection, but it was a poor display of sportsmanship.

The bad team finally got a runner on first with two outs. The next batter hit a ground ball to the shortstop. He literally prissed (skipping with his hands at shoulder level and limp wrists) to the base, bent at the waist, and touched the bag with the ball. I called the runner safe. I would love to say they got the message and the game ended with no further incidents, but I cannot remember how it went after that. I do know there were no ejections.

Now as a practical ruling, if a kid is not trying to show up his opponent, I am going to have an out every time. I am sure the tip of his pinkie grazed the bag when he touched it with the ball.

[QUOTE=Blue37;598551]He literally prissed (skipping with his hands at shoulder level and limp wrists) to the base, bent at the waist, and touched the bag with the ball. I called the runner safe. I would love to say they got the message and the game ended with no further incidents, but I cannot remember how it went after that. I do know there were no ejections.
QUOTE]

Let's see...."there were no ejections"...that kid that danced to first base should have been an immediate ejection. And...."I called the runner safe"...so YOU decided to change the rules of safe-out to "send a message". Shame, shame.....
Dump the dufus and if folks don't get the "message", TCB as needed. But don't compromise your integrity (and mine and every other umpire) by changing rules to "send messages".

JJ

2.00 TAG
2.00 PERSON (body)

think about where the ball is on a routine play to 1B...F3 catches it with his glove and his foot is on 1B...he does not catch the ball with his shoe. ball in hand, touches base with glove (with hand in glove) and that action beats the runner to the base...out.

Before you scold him, you consider that strictly speaking he's right: a fielder touching the base with the ball alone does NOT constitute a tag.

So, tagging the base with the ball is an out. The ball is referred to as equipment in the OBR and he tagged the base with the ball. Now, Blue37, you have changed the rules to fit a situation. Please, don't do that anymore. Call the out and send F3 home for unsportsmanlike conduct if you want. But, call the out if it is made.

As long as he is doing it with the obvious intent to secure an out and it is not accidental, it is an out. Even if the only thing touching the base is the baseball. The glove is not his body; it is considered to be equipment. So, now, he cannot touch the base with his glove? Yes he can and so he can touch the base with only the baseball, and it is still an out.

A pot/kettle sitch, perhaps?
 

I know that you're trying to rip Blue37, not me, but I have a question: you're ripping him for "changing the rules," but I'd suggest your solution is basically the same thing.

I might need to go back and re-read my rulebooks, but can you tell me where exactly in the rulebook you'd find the "Dump the Dufus for showing up his opponent" rule? And not only the rule, but the rule code as well?

If, in fact, there really isn't such a thing - aside from a 9.01(c) type clause - then how is your proposal any less of an integrity compromise?

I'm asking this as a serious question, not a veiled attempt to rip with sarcasm.

I guess it depends on how we read 2.00 PERSON, which refers to "his equipment" as being part of his body. The glove is clearly "his equipment," but the ball is less clearly his.

In practice, I'd call this out too. I was surprised to see the rule, though.

if it's a force play, he can touch the base with the bill of his hat if he wants to (provided the hat is still on his head...) or the tip of his nose, or whatever goofy thing he wants to do, as long as the base is touched and the ball is in his control. if it's a tag play and a tag is made with a glove, the ball has to be in the glove or it's not a tag.

Sorry, but the OP doesn't say what rules code they're playing under. I assumed that since it was an "18-under travel ball" team they were playing FED rules. Unsportsmanlike conduct in FED is punishable by ejection (3.3.1.g.2). If they were playing OBR, then rule 9.01d applies.
Hope this helps.

JJ

Ejection for unsportsmanlike conduct is valid in all codes...... Travesty of the game also comes to mind for twinkle toes............

"When tagging a base, a player may use any part of his body (e.g. foot, hand, shoulder) as long as he has secure possession of the ball in his hand or glove at the time he touches the base".

If he has the ball in his bare hand and touches the base with his glove hand, this seems to me to be a valid tag. If he has ball in hand the other hand has glove on it normally. I don't think we can expect him to throw off his glove so he can touch the base with his bare hand to record a valid out. He does not touch the bag with his foot either, because foot is inside shoe. Foot-shoe, hand-glove, same thing.

That's fair enough, but the rules also say that the umpire's judgement is final (other than appeal plays and check swings), and arguing balls and strikes is insta-EJ. And yet the practical application is not to do that - leaving one's place to argue balls and strikes is dumpable, but virtually everyone out there will at least throw a verbal caution or 'the stop sign' first. Also, HCs don't come out to make sure we've applied a rule correctly - they're out to try and argue that we got a call wrong.

So what I'm saying here is that an unsportsmanlike EJ might have a high bar, too. And I'm not even going to use "making a travesty of the game" as a rationale, as mentioned by someone else, unless it's for the specific rule in the book that uses the phrase.

\

correct...but I think that the posters are saying he can't throw his glove at the base...or something weird like that...for example, in FED, if a ball lodges in his glove, the pitcher can't take off his glove and throw glove w/ lodged ball to F3...in OBR he can. (not to hijack) but I don't think anybody is saying that he has to remove his hand from glove to touch 1B w/ hand versus hand-in-glove.

[QUOTE=JJ;598621]He who is without sin let him cast the first stone. Don't know what levels you work. But do you mean to tell me that your strike zone would be the same for 9 year olds and 18 year olds?:D

I would like to revise this. I got 2 different issues mixed up when replying. To get an out on a force play does not have to be intentional. Still, the only thing touching a base can be the ball and as long as it is in the player's possession, I consider that to be his equipment until he lets go of it.

I just couldn't let this remain posted without a correction.

[QUOTE=gordon30307;599056]Trust me, the levels he works, he doesnt have these problems. He is just stating what he believes.....