ouch!!

[umpjim]

What are you guys seeing that I'm not. I see the BR running outside the foul line, and seeing that he is a dead duck, crossing to fair territory to crash the fielder. The fielder saw it coming and protected the tag and himself. If anything, it was offensive malicious contact in FED. Would not you think if he was facing a tag the BR would avoid to the foulside or maybe backpedal (no they are not that smart enough). I won't be signing up on utube to voice my opinion however.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I hate the fact that FED baseball has gone somewhat overboard with the wussy protection rules, but for Chrissakes, a two-arm pop in the chops is malicious contact. I had an identical tag play last week, and the pitcher tagged the runner a little roughly in the pit of the stomach and the kid went down in a heap, which we later learned was due to a previous rib injury. But I had nothing other than an out call, even though the runner "looked" injured. The guy had a right to make a quick, sure tag. But not in the face!

[w_sohl]

Originally Posted by cc6

Pitcher went away right after the tag, a sign of no aggression.

More like a move hoping he didn't get caught.

[Kevin Finnerty]

A sign of no aggression. Wow. I missed that.

Forearm in the face has always seemed aggressive to me. Maybe I don't watch enough pro wrestling to know what that kind of playful aggression is and how to distinguish it from real aggression.

[cardinalfan]

I watched the video once, and my first thought was this play was totally unnecessary and I immediately thought I would eject the pitcher.

I really expected the next part of the video to show the pitcher getting hit in the ribs when he batted the next time.

[cc6]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

A sign of no aggression. Wow. I missed that.

Forearm in the face has always seemed aggressive to me. Maybe I don't watch enough pro wrestling to know what that kind of playful aggression is and how to distinguish it from real aggression.

It was a glove to the helmet. A hard tag yes, but probably done due to not thinking that he didn't need to tag the guy so hard. If the player had meant it in an aggressive way, he would have stayed there. Not many players are going to do something aggressive, then run away to not get caught.

[w_sohl]

Originally Posted by cc6

Not many players are going to do something aggressive, then run away to not get caught.

So you conceed that some players, like the one in the video, would try to move away, as he did in the video, to avoid being caught?

I don't care what the players intentions were, my preventative officiating is ejecting the kid for malicious contact.

[GA Umpire]

I think if anyone gets tossed, it is both players. The runner clearly puts his arms up to his chest to protect himself just like the pitcher. So, both are at fault for contact. The pitcher won.

The runner could have easily just stopped or stayed in foul territory to avoid the pitcher. It looked to me like he went toward the pitcher with the hope of putting up his arms up and knocking the ball loose. He initiated all of the contact.

It was a hard tag but watch the pitcher. He turns to look at the other runner(s) immediately. There was no stare down or any other looks. All the looks came from the beaten runner.

I say no ejection and no reference to the play except get the runner off the field. If he goes after the pitcher, eject him.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by cc6

Pitcher went away right after the tag, a sign of no aggression.

Oh, you mean no further sign of aggression.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by cc6

Not many players are going to do something aggressive, then run away to not get caught.

Far more players are going to attempt to avoid getting caught than those will stand there in an agressive stance in front of the umpire and others.`

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

The runner clearly puts his arms up to his chest to protect himself just like the pitcher. So, both are at fault for contact. The pitcher won.

Your position is that the BR is equally at fault for trying to protect himself? What's next? You keep a batter at the plate when he turns to protect his face from an inside pitch that hits him in the back?

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

The runner could have easily just stopped or stayed in foul territory to avoid the pitcher. It looked to me like he went toward the pitcher with the hope of putting up his arms up and knocking the ball loose. He initiated all of the contact.

To me, the batter was protecting himself. Before the tag, the batter does slow down in what looks like an effort to stop and give himself up to the tag.

However, I agree that the BR's post-actions are questionable. He shouldn't have walked toward the pitcher AT ALL.

[cc6]

Originally Posted by w_sohl

So you conceed that some players, like the one in the video, would try to move away, as he did in the video, to avoid being caught?

I don't care what the players intentions were, my preventative officiating is ejecting the kid for malicious contact.

No the opposite. If a player does something aggressive he is going to stay there and hold his ground.

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by cc6

No the opposite. If a player does something aggressive he is going to stay there and hold his ground.

I disagree. I know plenty of kids that would take an opportunity for a cheap shot and walk away in "victory." The intent was to get one good shot in, not to start a street fight - they got it, they were satisfied. It doesn't make the action any more or any less malilciaous just becasue they now walked away.

Now, in this play, F1 may not have intentionally tagged the runner in the face, but he did. That, combined with the force used to make the tag, makes it malicious.

For all we know that runner was dating the pitcher's sister and he broke up with her just before prom. Big brother wanted some payback for that.

[w_sohl]

Originally Posted by cc6

No the opposite. If a player does something aggressive he is going to stay there and hold his ground.

Not sure what utopian society you live in, but if I jab someone, I'm not sticking around to get caught.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by cc6

No the opposite. If a player does something aggressive he is going to stay there and hold his ground.

Runner crashes into and takes out the catcher with a forearm. He gets up and goes to his dugout.

So, this is not an aggressive act because he doesn't hang out to admire his work?

BullSh!t.