Asking for Help

Spence · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 13, 2009, 07:16pm

2 man crew in a game I watched tonight.

R1

RHP picks off R1 but the base umpire calls him safe because he can't see that the runner's hand is not on the base. F3 dropped straight down with the knee and prevented the runner from touching the base.

I could see it because I was looking straight down the first base line so I assume the HP umpire could as well.

I completely understand how the field up didn't see it.

However, what would prevent that umpire from asking the home plate ump if the runner touched the base?

johnnyg08 · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 13, 2009, 07:22pm

if he thought he say everything he needed to see he would not ask for help. sometimes we see things like this that our partners do not see...this is an example where we wouldn't intervene in the play. That's baseball.

DG · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 13, 2009, 08:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spence

F3 dropped straight down with the knee and prevented the runner from touching the base.

Likely obstruction if you were working a FED game. He can't drop a knee without possession of the ball. But if he don't call that either... so be it.

johnnyg08 · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 13, 2009, 08:45pm

if he allows some access to the base he can drop his knee can't he?

jicecone · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 13, 2009, 08:52pm

I don't have a problem asking for help however, on this play the Base ump is closer than the Plate ump. To try and be that finite by asking someone further away than you for help, well the perception just makes you both look bad. I know I wouldn't be asking for help on this.

Yea I know, the purists say the most important thing is to always get it right. I say as right as possible.

johnnyg08 · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 13, 2009, 08:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jicecone

I don't have a problem asking for help however, on this play the Base ump is closer than the Plate ump. To try and be that finite by asking someone further away than you for help, well the perception just makes you both look bad. I know I wouldn't be asking for help on this.

Yea I know, the purists say the most important thing is to always get it right. I say as right as possible.

great point...esp on a play of this nature...

DG · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 13, 2009, 09:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

if he allows some access to the base he can drop his knee can't he?

I just reading literally here.. "dropped straight down with the knee and prevented the runner". If he dropped a knee and gave him some of the bag then no obsruction. You are the judge as to how much is some. I generally go with half that the runner can use.

Spence · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 13, 2009, 09:55pm

Let me clear up some items.

The field ump was on the 3rd base side of the mound so he wasn't much closer than the HP ump. In addition F3 was between him and R1 when he made the tag.

F3 didn't drop his knee until after catching the ball.

I realize the FU saw what he saw. However, if the coach disagrees and approaches it the right way would it be unusual for the field ump to ask the HP ump for help?

DG · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 13, 2009, 10:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spence

Let me clear up some items.

The field ump was on the 3rd base side of the mound so he wasn't much closer than the HP ump. In addition F3 was between him and R1 when he made the tag.

F3 didn't drop his knee until after catching the ball.

I realize the FU saw what he saw. However, if the coach disagrees and approaches it the right way would it be unusual for the field ump to ask the HP ump for help?

With F1 only BU should be in B, not C. And yes, it would be very highly unusual for BU to ask for help from PU. Like never...

DonInKansas · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 13, 2009, 10:06pm

Your "view" down the first base line would probably not give a very good view of the back of 1st base, which was probably the part given to the runner.

Spence · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 13, 2009, 10:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonInKansas

Your "view" down the first base line would probably not give a very good view of the back of 1st base, which was probably the part given to the runner.

As a high school ref I can certainly appreciate your support of the umpires.

There was no question his hand did not reach the base. Add in that it was "my team" that should have been called out and you see I have no agenda.

Spence · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 13, 2009, 10:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DG

With F1 only BU should be in B, not C. And yes, it would be very highly unusual for BU to ask for help from PU. Like never...

I assume "C" is on the 3rd base side of the mound. That's where he was so I assume then that there was a R2 as well.

Ump153 · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 13, 2009, 11:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spence

I assume "C" is on the 3rd base side of the mound. That's where he was so I assume then that there was a R2 as well.

I don't get it. I thought you were there.

ODJ · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 13, 2009, 11:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DG

I just reading literally here.. "dropped straight down with the knee and prevented the runner". If he dropped a knee and gave him some of the bag then no obsruction. You are the judge as to how much is some. I generally go with half that the runner can use.

What if F3 is blocking the part of the base R1 wanted to touch for his return to the base?

Ump153 · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 14, 2009, 12:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODJ

What if F3 is blocking the part of the base R1 wanted to touch for his return to the base?

From this year's clinic:

"The fielder must give the runner access to a portion of the edge of the base facing the runner."

Forcing the runner to reach around and touch the edge of the base farthest from the runner is not providing access.