Theory behind B and C positions
 

I was asked a question about positioning last weekend- "Why with R3 only are we in C position?" I didn't have a good answer and I mentioned something about 'playing the percentages.' He then came back with "Well, why don't we go to B when there's 2 outs since the percentages say that the play is going to be at first?" Once again, I had no answer.

So, I defer my answers for this guy to you guys :) Why are we in the positions mandated by our mechanics books?

Most of the guys I work with choose between the two based on what we think is most likely to happen, just like your question described.

We go against the book at times.

I'm only in B with runners on first, first and third, or bases loaded. Everything else is C with runners on. Personally, I don't have a problem making a call on a play at first when I start in C. Just gain some ground toward first and get a good angle and you're fine. I did notice tonight that if a ball is hit to F6 and he has to charge it, you had better be ready to move if you're in C if he is going to throw to first.

Sometimes we have to do what the books request, but most of the time, our groups go with whatever we prefer. I like to stay in B most all of the time.
Some prefer C, but like you stated, I like to be close to the play.

But, I've worked with other groups who mandate move to C.

Playing percentages, what is it, less than 5% of plays at 3rd, so why do we spend so much time worrying about 3rd??

Thanks
David

I do not know if the percentages are right, but the reason I have been taught for a long time to be in the B position most of the time. That being said, our mechanics from our state have us in the B position with a runner on third. If I am not mistaken, that is also what the CCA Books says.

Peace

Why C?
 

I hate to be so old now, I remember "old school stuff"....

The old timers taught me that "being ahead of the runner" is the important thing, that is why many people are in C even with R3. You may say that you can't be ahead of the runner in C, but many times that run is the important runner in the game, and if there is a play on him at #B, it can be a significant play in the game.

The concepts that are so important in teaching mechanics today, like "angle over distance" and "cover the money play" were not as emphasized as they are now. when I went to school in the 1980's neither of these concepts were even discussed.

It's not only the "percentages," it's the time to move, and the type of call.

On a pick to third, the umpire will not have much time to move, already has an angle, and closer will be better for seeing (or at least selling) the tag play -- and most of these will be "close".

On a grounder with a throw to first, the umpire has plenty of time to move, sometimes the play will not be close, and distance doesn't matter as much on a "force play" (sic).

I know I stand with 2 outs in "B"...Im sure I read that in the CCA or the Red Book.

you are also in "C" in cause of a pickoff.

CCA still has BU (2 man mechanic) in C with 2 outs and R3. It is locally, Conference, MiLB mechanic that allows BU to be in B with R3 and 2 outs.

newbie question - I've watched 3 games this week. In 2 0f the 3 games - 2 person system, the BU was in C with R1 on first. We follow Fed here. This goes against what the manual says. I asked and was told that they go to C in this sit because they can turn and face first from C at the pitch. they get a "great" angle and have a slim profile to the batter/ball if hit towards them. I was also told that being a rook - I should follow the manual. Is this common? :confused:

That's weird, because you do not have the best angle for a pickoff at 1B from C... not sure why those guys are there.

Personally, if you're playing percentages with R1...your odds of play at 2B versus a pickoff at 1B are far greater. I love working C with R1 because I feel it gives me a significantly better angle to make a call on a SB attempt at 2B. HOWEVER...I'm very hesitant to sit in C...sometimes if I see that F1 doesn't have a good move to 1B...I will go to C because if somebody's going to be picked at 1B, the 90 yr old grandma in the stands will be able to see that he's out.

Get in the best angle to see the percentage play..esp w/ 2-man...where you already give up lots of angles.

I was thinking the same thing. The reasons they give for being in C do not make a lot of sense. You are so much farther from the pickoff especially from F2.

I could see a veteran umpire getting away with it, but for the younger umpires, the coach is going to eat your lunch making the call from that far away.

Thanks
David

The same reasoning applies to why you should be in C with R3. Out here, coaches will wonder why you are in B to see a pick at 3rd. They expect BU to be in C, which sets up a more natural angle to a play behind R3, plus you're a lot closer to the tag play, which is what they want to see.

The use of the metal bat determines where I go.

I have been hit once off of a metal bat and luckily nothing major happened. I felt some pain for a while but nothing earth shattering. I simply had no time to react.

If there is R3 and we have a Right hand power hitter up, I go to B if it's a lefty I go to "C".

In other words I try and go opposite of the persons power alley.

Also, I do not know about the rest of you but when the particpants use metal I am in a much "deeper" position then I would be if wood is used.

Nothing like a good ole fashion wood bat game.

Pete Booth

You are mistaken, CCA has C position for runner on 3b only. It is a better position for a throw from F2 to F5 after a pitch. I had one of these tonight with runner on 2B and 3B and was closer to 3B to make the call because I was in C. On a batted ball the BU can easily move into a better position to make the call at 1B

In any situation in which the PU will rotate to third, except on R2's tag-up, I am in B. In all other situations, I am in C.

Criticality of the play should dictate which position BU takes, the closer to HP the more critical the play.

R1, B you have both covered, PO and the steal.

R2, C, PO and steal attempt.

R3, C, PO attempt.

R1, R2, C, PO at 2nd more critical than PO at 1B, steal of 3rd more critical than steal of 2nd.
etc. etc.

B with R3, or C with R1 is good for one thing, killing grass.

The guys in Wi, if they think "making smaller sideways profiles is gonne keep em safer, rethink that. The human head is pretty much round, and the eyes are best used for tracking a moving object while "facing it".

Well, as we can see here , when in Rome do as you like.

Actually depending on the level, usually depends on wether I am in B or C. Usually, in games where da boys shave you rarely see a pickoff at third. HS JV and below it becomes a pain in the butt sometimes but, you will have a closer view. I am always in B with R1 only. Just easier to sell on a close pick.

I've experimented and found that if I stay in C with R1 & R3, the pitcher will try to pick off R1 or there is a banger at first. Nothing happens at R3.

If I decide to go to B with R1 & R3, the catcher snaps a quick throw to third, or the runner steals second on the first pitch with no throw and I go back to C anyway.

:rolleyes:

I believe the pickoff at third we are discussing is the catcher trying to pick the runner, not the pitcher.

Dude you cant make up your own mechanics.... you in "B" with R1... HOW IN THE HELL ARE YOU GONNA SEE A CLOSE PICKOFF @ 1st?.... you aint doing that crap in College.

In college ball, U1 is in A with R1. He has a great view.

They use two-man for a lot of college ball out here.

As stated before. Follow CCA and feel comfortable about it. Those guys did an awful lot of study before writing that manual. The fact that they do yearly updates makes me believe that Hiler, Poronto, Yeast, et al... know what they are doing. R3 regardless of outs, BU in "C".

Yes in 3 man, not in 2 man...you might want to look at the CCA again.

I don't need to look at the CCA manual again, thank you, though, for your suggestion.

I replied to a post the intimated college level. My college games are three man. I haven't looked at CCA for two man since, well, since ever. None of my two man games are college level and all are worked with pro mechanics.\

If you are working college games, above JUCO, in two man, you have my sympathy.

Yeah, around here we work 2 man until you get to D1 schools.

~Sigh~
 

In the Pacific Northwest 90% of all college games are two man.

Three person crews start at what could be called D2 and the D1 schools always have three man crews.

Regards,

We have a winner.