What would you do?

[TwoBits]

Situation in my last game. Summer league using FED rules between two pretty good teams ages 15-18. Being summer league, I know most of the boys and parents on the home team.

Top of the fifth, home team down 3-2, home team replaces pitcher. The catcher informs me that he is only pitching because he convinced the coach to let him because he is ticked off because the visiting team is razzing him (he was playing first). This pitcher lasts 3 pitches before being pummelled by 3 straight doubles to the gap. A new pitcher takes over, old pitcher goes back to first.

Fast forward to the top of the seventh, home team up 6-5.
I hear this kids mother to stop the game for the lewd comments the visiting team is making. I still cannot hear anything other that laughing, so I suspect something is going on. About this time, the kids Dad makes his way to the visiting team's dugout and threatens the assistant. Now I stop the game, ask both team's head coaches what is going on, and neither one said they had heard anything. Home team wins 7-6 in bottom of the seventh.

While we should ignore commments from the stands, exactly when should we take action before parents become physical?

[greymule]

It is unfortunately not uncommon around here for teenage boys to "watch" girls' softball games from the outfield fence for the sole purpose of making lewd comments to the outfielders. When the girls report it, we clear the boys out, but I admit I can imagine a situation that would be very tough to handle.

Now if fans or anyone else started to threaten people, I'd be on the cell phone right away. The police of every township and borough of the county I work are in my programmed "book."

[brandda]

If they were making comments to F3 wouldn't the FU have heard it when he was in A?

Regardless, when you ask the coaches if they heard anything, I would also mention to them that they need to tell their players that any inappropriate comments will be met with an immediate ejection.

Something sounds odd here though if players and parents can hear all of this and the coaches and umpires cannot.

[Buckeye12]

greymule...do you carry your cell phone with you on the diamond. I know that I've done some inner-city games and found myself in situations where I've felt pretty threatened. Doesn't sound like a bad idea. I've actually worked with another umpire who carry's a large pocket knife with him when he's on the diamond....I thought this was a little extreme.

[joemoore]

Situation in my last game. Summer league using FED rules between two pretty good teams ages 15-18...he is ticked off because the visiting team is razzing him (he was playing first)...I hear this kids mother to stop the game for the lewd comments the visiting team is making. I still cannot hear anything other that laughing...the kids Dad makes his way to the visiting team's dugout and threatens the assistant.

At this age, mom needs to untie the apron strings. Boys that age are a bit crewd and trying to get in the other team's head is part of the game in my opinion.

The other night, I had an umpire warn the bench for illegal cheering. They were chanting during pitches "Ahhhhhhhhh" a consistent tone from the time the pitcher prepared until the ball reached the catcher. No sudden sounds to distract the pitcher as he is about to make a delivery. I think the umpire made a mistake.

I think there is a line where players need to be able to do as they please. At that age, as long as the comments are not threatening, abusive or taunting, I'm ignoring it. In FED, where there is verbal interference, distracting a player about to catch a pop-up or similar action, I would also enforce that.

As for the father threatening a coach, at that point, I would try to calm the person down. I would listen to him for about 2 minutes and give him a chance to explain what he heard. I would then tell him whether what he heard was grounds for action if I heard the same thing. After that, I would give him his options: 1) calm down and stay away from the dugout 2) take your son off the field 3) leave. If he refused to take one of those choices, I would insist he be removed since he is affecting the game.

[Ump20]

Originally posted by joemoore

At this age, mom needs to untie the apron strings. Boys that age are a bit crewd and trying to get in the other team's head is part of the game in my opinion.

The other night, I had an umpire warn the bench for illegal cheering. They were chanting during pitches "Ahhhhhhhhh" a consistent tone from the time the pitcher prepared until the ball reached the catcher. No sudden sounds to distract the pitcher as he is about to make a delivery. I think the umpire made a mistake.

I think there is a line where players need to be able to do as they please. At that age, as long as the comments are not threatening, abusive or taunting, I'm ignoring it. In FED, where there is verbal interference, distracting a player about to catch a pop-up or similar action, I would also enforce that.

As for the father threatening a coach, at that point, I would try to calm the person down. I would listen to him for about 2 minutes and give him a chance to explain what he heard. I would then tell him whether what he heard was grounds for action if I heard the same thing. After that, I would give him his options: 1) calm down and stay away from the dugout 2) take your son off the field 3) leave. If he refused to take one of those choices, I would insist he be removed since he is affecting the game.

I think the umpire ruled appropriately. For more details check out Baseball Rules Differences (# 338 Twentieth Edition page 179). Under OBR 4.06a-3 players cannot attempt to induce a balk. Clapping hands while taking a lead off third base and cheering to pattern the pitcher's delivery do not belong in any serious baseball game. Unless proven otherwise I assume every game is serious ball at least at the start. The umpire can make a comment to the coach of the offending team rather than confronting the dugout.

[brandda]

Originally posted by joemoore
The other night, I had an umpire warn the bench for illegal cheering. They were chanting during pitches "Ahhhhhhhhh" a consistent tone from the time the pitcher prepared until the ball reached the catcher. No sudden sounds to distract the pitcher as he is about to make a delivery. I think the umpire made a mistake.
[/B]

I disagree and support the umpire's decision. It's bush league and has no place in baseball. What purpose does it serve to allow it other than to teach boys that baseball is yet one more place that has decided that honor and acceptable behavior is irrelevant. Boys don't "need" to behave like this. Once they realize that punishment is inevitable they will stop.

[greymule]

In answer to Buckeye12's question, I always have my cell phone around, but not out of concern for my safety. Recently, however, the head of our association told me to carry my cell phone to an evening of slow-pitch softball and call the police if there was any drinking going on.

In fact, I have very seldom felt threatened. Once, before I had a cell phone, an entire team was suddenly in my face when they lost in the bottom of the seventh of an otherwise uneventful slow-pitch game. A throw skipped through the catcher to the backstop, and the winning run scored standing up. Even though there was no contact, they were fuming that I hadn't called the runner out for not sliding. A couple of players did threaten me, and several were suspended by the league. Funny thing was that I had the same team the next year and was ready for trouble but they didn't even recognize me. I was happy the other team crushed them, though.

Oddly, in our county, the assignments considered least desirable in terms of safety are inner-city middle school girls' games. The schools don't have their own fields, so they play in various parks, often on fields that are quite isolated. It is not uncommon for young thugs, usually not associated with the school, to cause trouble. They try to watch the game from inside the backstop, then act outraged and surly when the ump tells them they can't stay there. Foul language under their breath, mumbled threats, things like that. Wouldn't happen at a varsity game, but these guys know where the pickings are easiest.

Almost all the trouble around here stems from slow-pitch softball. Combine young hotheads full of testosterone with a few beers before the game, and the results are predictable. The very worst incidents have been in slow-pitch tournaments where some team from another state gets pounded in their first game, starts drinking, and then plays their losers' bracket game on some field miles from nowhere. When they start getting pounded in that game, they know they're going home and have nothing to lose by becoming unruly. They also know that if they're banned from the tournament next year, they can always sneak back in under another name. Give me the main field and the top division every time.

[joemoore]

This cheer was in no way inducing a balk it was simply a continuous monotone chant that did not change as the pitcher was delivering.

I have seen American Legion teams doing similar chants. Despite your opinions about it being bush league the umpire should not create a rule out of thin air.

I disagree with umpires changing the momentum of the game and taking the wind out of the sails of one team. I saw a game where kids put pebbles in empty plastic drink containers and used them to make a rattling sound only to have a "district rep" from the home team silence them, calling it illegal. How is showing enthusiasm and making noise to support your team illegal?

I guess with my years of coaching softball, I was bush league by helping the girls to choose cheers that would help give our side momentum.

Why do coaches yell to their players to talk it up? Why do teams prefer to play before a noisy home crowd and dread playing against one? Because it is a crucial part of the psychology of the game. Players feed off of it.

The umpire giving the warning to one team gave an unfair edge to the other team.

[jicecone]

"I have seen American Legion teams doing similar chants."

And I have stopped American Legion Teams that were performing that same type of monotone chanting. You can say want you want, if it is such an important part of the game then why dont they chant when their pitcher is on the mound. No, because they know how disturbing it can be . I also will not allow it, if it is in a manner that I feel is attempting to entice the pitcher to balk.

This may be acceptable in softball but I agree there is no way Im letting it go on in my basball games. Cheering is one thing. Playing within the rules is another.

How many balks are called in softball? And herein lies the problem. Im sorry, I dont subscribe to the theory that every game should be played with football mentallity. especiality the game of baseball.