If a right-handed pitcher comes set in the stretch position with his right foot on the pitching rubber, is it a balk if, in one quick motion, he steps back off the rubber with his right foot and then pivots to first base as if to throw but does not release the ball?

no

Hmmm, a tough one . . .
 

no

As long as his foot is off the rubber when he makes his motion, no. CLose though.

<b>"As long as his foot is off the rubber when he makes his motion, no. CLose though."</b>


Close? What's close about it? He stepped off. Then he faked. Completely, absolutely, without question, no debate a perfectly legal and extremely common move. Close? Close to what?

[Edited by GarthB on Jun 3rd, 2002 at 10:36 PM]

Garth,

You have to make a judgement as to whether he stepped off first or faked first. The post said that the step off and fake to first happened at the same time. That makes it close in my book.

The post read:
..."is it a balk if, in one quick motion, he steps back off the rubber with his right foot <b>and then </b>pivots to first base as if to throw but does not release the ball?

Sounds like a pretty clear 1-2 sequence. I see nothing about the two moves happening at the same time.

Yep,
 

Hooray for Garth.

The play as posted is simple . . . Don't make things tougher than they are.

What about "dropping his hands...
 

to sides" after stepping off (as required by OBR? Sorring for the very late post - I just stumbled on this thread.

I see guys interrupt their stretch by stepping back and immediately throwing to first without dropping hands to sides. Is this not a balk? What constitutes "dropping the hands?"

The "dropping of the arms/hands" have nothing to do with the scenario. That rule is to prevent pitchers from stepping back off the rubber and immediately getting back on to pitch. The dropping of the hands, by interpretation, can occur anytime up to the point of reengaging the rubber in preparation of coming to a Set or Windup position.
Jerry

"When the pitcher disengages the rubber,
 

...he must drop his hands to his sides" is the exact sentence from ORB. It says "when" he disengages, not "before he re-engages."

I find you are correct in practice, since I have never seen a balk called on the "step back throw to first move" when the pitcher keeps his hands up and raises his throwing arm immediately without dropping it. Yet the rule seems very clearly to indicate failure to do not is not legal.

The way it is described above it seems to be a 1-2 sequence, but it does sound awfully close to a jump-turn type of move. In which case it would be a balk if the pitcher did not throw the ball to first, correct?

RBN3:
Let me ask you, if someone tells you, "Make sure to turn off the stove when you leave the house.", when would you turn off the stove?

In your question, the dropping of the hands to the side is one of several requirements that must be met "when" a pitcher disengages the rubber, not "immediately after" a pitcher desengages the rubber. As I posted earlier, by official interpretation, a pitcher has all the way up to when he reengages the rubber in prepration for coming to a Set or Windup. It has nothing to do with the process of making or faking a throw anywhere.

Jerry

I'd turn it off when I left...
 

not simply before I came back, because by the time I got back the house might have burned down.

Not trying to be a smart a##, but where can I find the official interpretation that clarifies this?

Technically F1 is supposed to have his pivot foot touch before splitting of his hands for his throw.

In reality, nobody picks that booger.
Using the concept of advantage/disadvantage, when the pitcher's pivot foot moves backward it becomes quite obvious that he's not going to pitch. The runners should be pretty well aware to watch out at that point.

NOW, what you do want to watch for in that move is to be certain that the pitcher does not split his hands before moving his pivot foot backward.
THAT IS A BALK.............

The split of the hands is commitment to pitch if his foot has not committed him otherwise, and a wise runner who knows how to steal will be off for the races at the split of the handsif F1's feet have not committed him to a base. If you allow F1 to go anywhere other than home plate if his foot is not committed <u>but after splitting his hands</u>, then you've given F1 a significant advantage.


Just my opinion,

Freix

"where can I find the official interpretation that clarifies this"

Depending upon your interpretation and acceptance of "the official interpretation", I belive "The 2002 BRD" (Baseball Rule Differences) Pg 183 *348, does a good job of explaining this.

Note ,there is no penalty for not dropping the hands to the sides after disengaging. I am not sure if there is a penalty for engaging the rubber without both hands to the side however, "prior to coming to a set position, the pitcher shall have one hand on his side'. OBR 8.01

BRD states that it is a "Don't do that" pitching infraction, according to OBR. Therefore it may be a balk with runners on base. Mabey someone else can help out here?

Mel, the pitching maneuver you describe happens all the time. If you carefully read 8.01 of the OBR, you will find that, for a pitcher to disengage the rubber, he must drop both hands and step BACK off the rubber with his pivot foot.
BUT, if the pitcher doesn't do that, there is no penalty for not doing it. Therein is the reason why upires do not enforce the disengagement protocol. As a base upire, I watch that pivot foot like a hawk, because they don't always get that foot completely off the rubber. I nail them for it, because I feel like pitchers push to the limit a rule that has no "teeth in it."

Marty,
How do you "nail them for it"? Since the pitcher hasn't done anything that warrants a penalty; except for a "Don't do that".

Generally speaking, after a "warning" of "Don't do that"; if a pitcher does it again, he could/should be ejected. I haven't seen that happen . . . at any level of ball.

Jerry

JERRY,

REREAD MY POST. SOME OF THE FAST AND FANCY MOVEMENTS BY SOME OF THESE PITCHERS RESULT IN THE PIVOT NOT COMPLETELY COMING OFF THE RUBBER. THAT'S WHEN I YELL AND POINT, "THAT'S A BALK --YOU DIDN'T CLEAR THE RUBBER COMPLETELY. YOU,(R1) GO TO SECOND..." AND SO ON.

THEN THE COACH COMES RUNNING OUT, "HEY WHAT ARE YOU DOING?" MY REPLY IS, "I'M HELPING YOUR PITCHER LEARN HOW TO LEGALLY DISENGAGE THE RUBBER, COACH. MAYBE DURING THE NEXT PRACTICE YOU CAN HELP HIM WITH THAT."

IN SOME OF THE GAMES, THE PITCHERS ARE AFRAID TO KEEP DOING THE IMPROPER DISENGAGEMENT, EVEN THEIR CLOSER. I JUST IGNORE THE DIRTY LOOKS, BECAUSE WAY DOWN DEEP, I KNOW THAT I DID SOMETHING GOOD FOR THE GAME. *LAUGH*

" I watch that pivot foot like a hawk, because they don't always get that foot completely off the rubber. I nail them for it, because I feel like pitchers push to the limit a rule that has no "teeth in it.""

I do believe the proper term for this is BOOGER PICKING.
Sorry , my wife is waiting so we can go to dinner and enjoy the night on the fees I just earned. Got Go.

Jicecone,

"Booger Picking" is an interesting term...in fact it sounds like a hocky term. Perhaps that is where your expertise lies. Anyway, I hope you and the wife had a nice dinner out.

Funny thing I learned that word right here on the Forum and I do officiate Ice Hockey (or as you would say Hocky), also.

Dinner was great Thankyou.

Marty,
 

You're quite a smarty.

Watch like a hawk if you want but I will "only call the balks that everyone sees".

If you are watching the pitcher's plate so studiously I would suggest you're missing a whole lotta other stuff happening around you.

After reading your profile I ain't gonna get too worked up over ya!

Enjoy.

[Edited by Tim C on Feb 25th, 2003 at 10:16 PM]