Two Head Scratchers

[tarheelcoach]

My first full season of umpiring came to a conclusion tonight. Somewhere between 120-150 games split between HS, USSSA, and Dixie.
This last one was a little kid fall ball game (82 degrees at 6:00 game time - gotta love the south). And of course, it was one that had like eight close plays and two that really had me scratching my head.

Here's two that had my thinking -

1.) R1 heads to third on overthrow of first base on ground ball. That ball gets by the 3B, so R1 keeps on going to home. He dives headfirst into home (a no-no in Dixie), but I call him safe. Why? The ball rolled under the fence before he dove. Once the play is dead, I can't nail him for sliding headfirst, right? Runners advance without liability to be put out, correct? To apply this to big kid ball, if R1 had plowed the catcher over with the ball out of play, could I call him out, or do I just eject him?

2.) R3, passed ball. Pitcher takes throw from the catcher and goes to his knees. The runner slides into the pitcher and ends up shy of the plate. Still no tag. Pitcher and R3 both look at me, suddenly realize there is a reason the old man hasn't made a call and scramble to tag/reach the plate. The pitcher takes his throwing forearm and literally pushes R3 away from the plate before swinging his glove around and tagging him. I called the runner safe because of the push. But the pitcher has the ball, so it can't be obstruction, right? What is it? I kind of think its similar to a fielder forcing a runner off a base and then tagging him. What do you think?

Thousands of games as a coach, hundreds now as an official, and still way too much to learn!

[SanDiegoSteve]

1) Just eject. In FED I believe he would also be out, but not in "real" baseball.

2) Out. He has the ball, he can push and shove. What rule would you use to call him safe? And it's not like a fielder pushing a runner off a base. Home plate is not a base that one needs to cling to, just touch. Plus the runner never got to the base, so there is no comparison to a runner who had already acquired a base.

[bob jenkins]

1) I don't know what the specific ruling would be under "Dixie", but there's a difference between being "put out" by the defense and being "declared out" for a baserunning violation. The former can't happen on an award; the latter can.

2) Although the rule does indicate that a player with the ball can't obstruct, that player still cannot perform an egregious action (such as tripping, holding, etc). It's a HTBT, but obstruction is a possibility, imo.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Agree--I gotta think that it is obstruction of some kind, and can't be done. It just sounds so unfair that it must be ruled against, even if the rule is muddy.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

2) Although the rule does indicate that a player with the ball can't obstruct, that player still cannot perform an egregious action (such as tripping, holding, etc). It's a HTBT, but obstruction is a possibility, imo.

Yes, I believe Garth (either on this site or another) posted a message a while ago from Jim Evans that said that it IS possible to obstruct with possession of the ball. I'll do a search and see if i can find the thread.

But as you said bob, obstruction is plausible in this situation, but HTBT.