Between Innings
 

Working with Fed, 2-man mechanics, as the BU, do you walk down to the plate between innings to converse with the PU, unless it was about a situation in a previous inning?

When I first started this spring, not knowing any better I'd just walk down the line between innings to chat with the PU, but was then told by our association president it doesn't look good, and I haven't since. And I don't really mind just waiting out in short right field for the next half-inning, but was just wondering what others do, and what their reason is.

I briefly looked through the umpires manual tonight, but couldn't find anything.

Your association is correct. Stay in short right-field between innings. Does not look professional if you are chatting between innings.

Also, do not talk with your partner the half inning following a controversial call. Wait a few, then talk about it if you need to.

You have to listen to every bit of advice you get as you umpire...rookie or solid veteran..digest and decide what to do from there..

This is a case where it is a good idea to never, I repeat, never go have a talk with your PU unless you are not communicating well, and you are called in by the PU to discuss mechanics (possibly not covered in a pregame, or a fluke play that you need to get on the same page)

Stay out in short right field...hands on hips, behind the back..whatever...just have an aura of confidence without being cocky..

It gives the impression that both of you know your shinola and are in total control of the game...

Just as an aside, you would be surprised at how much time you can shave off a game if you continue to manage the game between innings.

Refrain from idle chatter with your partner or game participants, monitor the number of warm-up pitches, and encourage the teams to hustle in and out.

3 hour games suck for everyone involved.

I talk with my partner before the game, and after the game, and during an innning if we need to get together on something and he calls me to discuss something, a rules interp perhaps.

Never between innings. I have been called to discussions between innings but I would rather not have them. If I am working the plate I will not call my partner to a between inning discussion.

And I've noticed that alot of time gets wasted when this happens. The plate umpire usually will lose count of the warm up pitches being thrown, and just give a count of how many the pitcher has left.

Also, after I've started just waiting in right field, I notice how irritating it is when the BU comes by me between innings. I'm like everyone else, I love fast baseball games, as an ump and as a spectator.

It gives off an impression that you are bored and need some in between inning entertainment. Like you want a 2 minute break every 10 minutes because you don't enjoy what you are doing or don't care about the quality of your work.

Don't do it, unless absolutely neccessary, and never after a controversial call, as somebody else mentioned.

Your best bet as the BU is to head for right field between innings. When I am a BU, I might come in once or twice a game if at all. It may be to go over a mechanics issue, it may be to settle my partner down a little if he is too quick or I am working with a young guy in a training mode, or if something is up between the two teams and I want my partner to know about it. Again, these are rarely used but I won't say never.

I was working with a very respected umpire in our association for the first time in 2007 during an American Legion game. I was the BU. I didn't come in until the 6th or 7th and it was because the legionaires that operate the concession stand at that field always bring 2 bottles of water over to the BU and he takes 1 down to the plate guy between innings. My partner, who I assumed wanted me to keep my rear end in short RF as much as possible, said "I was beginning to think you didn't like me or had an issue with me because you hadn't come in yet". I was a little befuddled but the point is you never know what some guys are thinking. Still, it's best to limit the between innings visits among umpires.

Lawrence

Many umpires in my association want to chat between innings. This has a couple of consequences: by "doing it right," I sometimes seem stand-offish by comparison. Also, coaches expect the umpires to be accessible.

More than once an inning has ended with a banger, and I've had a base coach say, "yeah, you'd better run away" as I headed out to right field. His status for the remainder of the game depended on whether anyone but me could hear him. ;)

I agree, though I personally see no difference between " during an inning", and "between innings" when determining if I need to converse with a pard or not.....

I'm with the consensus. Lawrence nailed it pretty well: zero to once per game and never after a questionable call or incident. Trot out to short right and enjoy the breeze.

In the Fall we are more likely to chat, in the spring it's a no-no.

During an inning means there is a decision to be made and a discussion will help with making the right call. Between innings is just chit-chat.

I cover after completion of the pre-game conference; if I am working bases I typically say "I will see you after the game".

I never run after an inning ending banger. I do turn and walk briskly away.

Here's another reason to stay in the outfield between innings. If the inning ends on a whacker at first and you head IN to talk to your partner, you're a much easier target for that irate coach AND everyone on his side of the field. If you stay in the outfield and that coach comes out to you, HE looks like an aggressor and it's much easier to deal with him.

JJ

And that one was always obvious to me...I had a partner a few weeks ago (I was PU, he was BU) come to me right after a banger at first to end the inning. I'm glad it was fall HS frosh ball and circumstances were pretty laid back, but that's definitely the time to always go out into right field.

Not only that, but it just plain looks bad to come talk to the PU after a banger anywhere in the inning, not just the third out. I feel it gives everyone the impression that you weren't really sure of the call and are looking for confirmation from your partner.

As far as regular visits between innings, I only will come in a maximum of once, late in the game, and only then if I know my partner is open to the idea. With most umpires I never come in to talk, but I know which guys welcome the company and which don't (usually really close buddies only). But don't make a habit out of coming in. I can't stand it when a guy comes down almost every half inning.

When working 3 or 4 man, the field umpires often converse between innings, even in the majors. But you rarely, if ever, see them gabbing with the plate man. Like MC Hammer said, "It ain't proper.":cool:

It all depends upon who my partner is.

Umpiring should be FUN at least it is for me.

Some frown on talking to players / coaches etc. but we have to be ourselves and I am not a robot at least I do not think I am.

I agree do not talk on an inning that ends on a controversial call or banger but other than that I see nothing wrong with it as long as the game is not being delayed etc. and as mentioned it all depends upon who my partner is.

If you are doing high calibur ball etc. for the most part no need to count warm-up pitches etc. These young men know what they are doing and no need for you to say "balls in" or "bring it down" etc that one one do in "kiddy ball" or "teenage ball"

This falls under the category "to each his own" Also, as with most things we do out there association protocol meaning if your association does not want you to chat then you do not chat. It's akin to the BU carrying an indicator on the bases. Some associations do not want the BU carrying an indicator so in those associations guess what If you are BU you do not carry an indicator.

Pete Booth

Hmmm,
 

I find it strange how different things are in different parts of the USA.

In Oregon our training comes directly from umpires and umpire evaluators that work in the PAC-10.

In major college baseball (PAC-10/WCAC) plate umpires are required to "count warm-up pitches". When there are two pitches remaining we are trained to step to towards home plate, hold up two fingers and loudly announce "TWO MORE!"

To not do this during a Pac-10 or WCAC game will mean a major ding on your evaluation.

I just find mileage varying is a strange concept when dealing with umpire items such as this.

In closing:

When I umpire the plate I have a lot of stuff to do between innings and I certainly don't want (nor need) someone to come down and have a discussion with me. At my advanced years I need the time between innings to work on my focus and make sure the game is being managed correctly.

In major college baseball (PAC-10/WCAC) plate umpires are required to "count warm-up pitches". When there are two pitches remaining we are trained to step to towards home plate, hold up two fingers and loudly announce "TWO MORE!"


The Eastern League umpires do that also.

I do that too, tell the pitcher he has two more left. Can't really remember if I was taught that, or I just picked up on that from others. Thanks to all the feedback so far.

In a way to ask another question, What is the protocol for PU between innings. I've been told he should alternate sides of the field each half-inning, depending on who is batting and who is fielding, but I never remember which is which. I typically always stand on the first base side (I guess that makes me more accessible to that BU walking down to talk to me :D)

Typically that's the rule...however if you just rung up a lefty and your rotation brings you down the 3B dugout, you may not want to cross face w/ the batter again...it might be better to clear yourself behind him so if he's going to say anything to you, everybody in the stadium will see the hitter either coming toward you or if the hitter is simply being frustrated and wants to rip you a new one under his breath to himself...you won't accidentally hear what you don't want to hear. Switching sides is a good idea between 1/2 innings when there's nothing else to be preventative about. I'm sure other guys have good ideas too.

you can tell the catcher too...esp if the starter is suiting up after being stranded on base or made the last out as a hitter...because typically the catcher will alert F6 and F2 that he's coming down...

or as the other poster said above...say it loud enough so they both (F1, F2) hear you.

The PCL guys will actually walk several steps into the infield to tell the pitcher, then go back to the line to tell the on-deck batter it's the last pitch.

I don't remember where I picked it up (probably here), but all other things being equal, I follow the last batter towards his dugout so that I'm nearer the emptier dugout when that team takes the field, on the theory that there will be fewer persons to start a discusssion. But I often end up on the third base side where I stash my water bottle. I do believe in alternating sides to avoid even an unconscious appearance of partiality.

I go to the side that is taking the field. If they are lolly-gagging around, a word of encouragement will most times speed them up.

If we're counting small college ball as high caliber, I have both played and umpired high caliber baseball. As a catcher, like I was through college, I wouldn't throw down until the umpire said so, especially when it's cool or cold. If the umpire isn't paying attention and I can get my pitcher two extra pitches, I'll take that advantage. On a hot day when arms are easily loose and more pitches means tiring a lot quicker, I'll probably call for two before the umpire said so. Yes, these young men do know what they are doing, and they will take advantage of someone who isn't paying attention.

During some recent inter-squad fall ball games, I was a little bit more lax because pitchers were jumping in and out every few innings to get work. During any spring or summer games I do my best to stay on top of warm up pitches.

Also, I don't like "balls in" or "bring it down", or anything like that. I just tell the catcher he has two more, then he tells whoever he wants whatever he wants, then we get going.

In the Big Ten, Horizon, and MidAmerica leagues we tell the catchers and pitchers in the first inning when there are "two more". In the second I tell them "throw the 5th one down". And yes, I count anyway to make sure and remind them if they abuse the number of warmups.

As for the PU between innings - I was taught at umpire school to stand on the side of the team coming off the field. That avoids that batter you just rang up on that borderline pitch running past you and making a comment he probably shouldn't. If he has to yell that comment because you're on the other side of the field, it's easier to deal with.

JJ

When we had one guy in charge of evaluations, it was "follow the sticks", or stand on the side of the team who just finished batting. The guy that took his place is the opposite. Each had his reasons. Neither was convincing that it was the "right" way. Only that it was "his" way.

It's just as likely (probably more) you'll be confronted by an unhappy pitcher as an unhappy hitter. Stay away from guys who might be mad at you.

There are a couple of fields I work that are poorly laid out, with the 1st base line running out due south. On those fields, I usually stand on the 1st base line, because on the 3rd base line the sun gets in your eyes. Of course, most of the fans sit in the 1st base bleachers for the same reason, so if the players' wives/girlfriends are hot, I will stand on the 3rd base line in order to get a better view between innings. I've been dinged on evaluations a few times, but who cares when you get views like that! The games may have taken 1:47 instead of 1:45 because of it, but the sun always came up the next day.

I was taught to stand on the foul line of the team that just finished batting, for reasons stated earlier. I didn't care who dared to confront me, they were on an extra short leash bothering me on my rest period. I didn't hear much grumbling on their way to their positions. My reputation for not taking a lot of crap had preceeded me quite well.

I too am of the school that says, "Two more" to the catcher. Some thought I meant two more then take it down. Those catchers didn't get to throw to 2nd base.:)

I was taught to, and stil do, go to the side of the team coming to bat. I tell pitcher when he has two, and I tell the batter in the on deck circle when there is one left. It helps keep the game moving

I am pleased to see that the umpires at the Chiefs and Redwings and Doubledays games also work this way.

I was taught to stand on the foul lline of the team that just finished fielding.

I also count pitches but I tell the pitcher "two more". Before the last pitch I have brush in hand and hovering on the 3B side of the plate when I tell catcher to take it down. There is no confusion. After an inning or two I just tell pitcher two more and hover and the catcher knows....

East coast, west coast...

Don't worry, I preferred Biggie to Tupac.:cool:

[QUOTE=briancurtin;543142]This is an area by area "thing" and as I stated if this is an association mandate as with many things (like uniform apparel) then of coarse you follow the mandate.

For the most part all I say is "catch Normal routine" which means 8 to start and 5 in between. Other than an association mandate I do not understand the need to tell F1 he has 2 pitches left etc. as they ALREADY know that but if that's what they do in Rome then do as the Romans do.

I find this a paradox meaning we do not tell F1 the "situation" after his warm-ups are complete. By situation I mean tell F1 "Hey pitch there is 1 out and runners at the corners" That's the coaches job

YET we now want to tell F1 he has 2 pitches left during his warm-ups.

If F1 and F2 want to be treated like "Children" then that's how they will be treated.

In Summary getting back to the original OP, we are all different meaning some want NO Conversation at all etc. and that's ok. As I stated in my original response it all depends upon who my partner is. I have a few that like to chat in between innings and some that do not.

Again another OP which IMO is an area by area "thing" and also governed by association protocol.

Perhaps we should start a new thread on how we would be if there were NO association Protocols at all.

Pete Booth

Personally, I dislike it when my partner comes down to talk to me while I'm working the dish, unless it's about a play, rotations, or something related to the game. I'll probably never tell a guy to not come and talk to me, but I may move to the 3B side as he's coming down...typically they get the hint. I'm sure there are guys on here who will bring it up in their pregames, and that's cool too.

Maybe he was talking about East Coast vs West Coast Swing? ;)

my .02
 

It might just be the way I was trained, but in my games, if you are the UIC and I am on the bases.........Im not coming in unless you call me in....

AND if you ever do see me coming in uncalled.....hustle over, because its important!!

I might have seen a rattlesnake in the outfield.....(true)...

What about a GLM in the stands. I know there are hand signals for that also but there might be "something special" worth mentioning to your partner.

Pete Booth

my.02
 

well there was that time this summer at a tourney where the GLM in the short denim skirt propped her legs up against the chain link fence....and caused a small riot ....but after the 1st base coach saw it...lets just say no signal needed:D