Another Balk Question
 

While watching a high school summer league game the following occurred.

Count of 1-2, with a R2. The pitcher did not come set before the pitch, BU called “Balk,” pitch is hit, a chopper to F5 who looks R2 back to second, throws to first but BR beats the throw. BU then places BR at first and R2 at third. DC, BU and PU conference and R2 is moved back to second, BR remains at first. I overheard catcher ask PU what the ruling was and PU told him BR gets first due to hit, R2 goes back to second due to not advancing on hit. Never heard anything from the OC questioning the movement of his players.

I’m new to Umpiring but after 14 years of coaching I would have had a few things to say to the PU & BU if I have the rules correct which I guess they are playing FED rules. Since R2 did not advance on the play shouldn’t the outcome have been R2 to third and BR back to the plate with a 1-2 count?

FED rules are simple. A balk is an immediate dead ball and all runners advance one base. There is no "if the runners advance" part of FED Rules. The count would stay the same as there is no pitch on a balk. That is of course if they are playing under FED Rules.

Peace

Under OBR the result would be the same (R2 at 3rd and BR with same count) as both BR and and any other runners did not advance at least 1 base on the pitch after the balk.

"Never heard anything from the OC questioning the movement of his players."

Heck no, now his .097 hitting, # 9 guy, is on 1B, instead of & 2 strikes.

OBR, had R2 advanced "on the throw", I'd a left em R3, R1.

Does NCAA stay live?

That would be correct becuase everyone advanced at least one base on the play.

This NCAA rule is the same as the OBR rule

FED is the only code where a balk is an automatic dead ball. Makes things interesting for those of us who work the other codes as well.

FED is simple, as other posters have said...if you have a balk...everything stops period.

Oops, I did it again...
 

I had originally misread the OP, and incorrectly answered the question concerning OBR. I thought that the BR did not advance at least one base.

so in this sitch, since the BR reaches but R2 doesn't advance at least one base...do you keep the BR @ 1B,then move R2 to 3b...?? OBR/NCAA interp

No. Since R2 didn't advance, the ball is dead and the balk must be enforced. Put the batter back in the box (no pitch) and award R2 3rd base.

could the coach take the play, leaving it R2 and R1? or is that not an option in this sitch?

A balk is never, NEVER an option play, although coaches (and unfortunately some umpires) think it is. Catcher's interference IS an option play, which is where I think the confusion lies, for some reason.

As a matter of fact, I believe there are only 3 situations under OBR rules where a manager can choose the result of the play or the penalty. As Rich says, a balk ain't one of them, while Catcher's Interference MAY be one, depending on the result of the play.

JM

Let me see if I can do this:

1. Catcher's interference and a play follows where the batter does not reach first and all runners don't advance at least one base

2. Pitcher doctors ball and a play follows where the batter does not reach first and all runners don't advance at least one base

3. The fourth out where an appeal play is made on a play where the third out is made and the coach has the option of taking the out that gives them the bigger advantage.

How did I do?

thank you. i'd rather ask and learn on here versus get it wrong on the field.

In NFHS, you can choose the outcome if it's found that a player has an illegal glove and made a play on the ball. I don't know if this is the same in other organizations.

Rule 1-5-3.

Rule 1-5-7: "If a ball is touched with an illegal glove or mitt...the coach or captain of the team at bat has the choice of taking the result of the play or having the award..."

There are only 2 situations the coach has options. Catchers intererance and illegal pitch.

I only have a 2005 book, and it's 1-5-3 in mine. Same rule.

No penalty for use of an illegal glove. It is simply removed from the game. This was a rule change for 2008.

I thought that was just for the "white on a pitchers glove" rule. Other illegal gloves (too large, for example) still had the penalty.

Steven, are you referring to NFHS? If so, then I have to disagree. I have the 2008 book, which I quoted from directly.

Looking at the 2009 Rules changes, I see nothing for illegal gloves for fielders, just pitchers.

Good catch. NFHS rules.

Legal length top to bottom-14".
Legal width of palm-8".
Legal width of webbing-5".

Catcher's glove may be any size.