plow the catcher olympics

[umpjim]

Posted this elsewhere but value everyones opinion:
Thought baseball was out of the olympics but caught a clip of a controversey tonite. USA vs China ( I think). First clip USA ahead by I don't know how many and USA runner crashes and takes out the catcher on a play at home. No big deal by OBR rules. Next clip, inning I don't know, USA runner crashes the catcher (he stays in the game) and USA ahead by some more. Next I hear 5 USA batters hit by pitch and saw a clip of one of them. Then I hear USA won 9 to 1. With that score if your gonna crash the catcher then why are you whining about getting thrown at? Didn't look good to me from what I saw on TV but maybe somebody can clear it up for me. thanks

[TussAgee11]

I'll take two cracks at it...

1) Yes, you whine when you play the game hard, but fair, and then get 5 of your batters hit, no matter what the score (if that is indeed what happened). That's baseball, no matter what the score, play hard and play fair.

2) Care to rephrase and ask an umpiring question?

[JJ]

Here's a link with the story and a few more details -

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/180820...ly-affair.html

JJ

[umpjim]

Uh, umpiring wise, 5 hit batters and no ejections. Have you seen that before? Edited to add thanks, from the news story I see there was an ejection and I don't see anything about five hit batters. The TV clip I saw said something about five hit batters. Too late to do any more "research". Thanks guys.

[Steven Tyler]

Actually six batters were hit. The sixth batter hit, Matt LaPorta had to leave the game because he was hit in the left ear flap. Umpires huddle and ejected the Chinese pitcher. LaPorta had just earlier slid hard into the replacement catcher

China is coached by former MLB players (Jim Levebre, mgr. and Steve Ontiveros, pitching coach) so I don't understand a bean ball war going on. The Chinese had control problems all day. The USA player did go out of his way to contact the Chinese catcher who had to leave the game.

The USA has a 24 man roster and it looks like two position players could be out for the Olympics. Jayson Dix took a foul ball bunt to his left eye and cut it very severely. Their breakdown is 12 position players and 12 pitchers. They might be stuck with only a backup catcher as the only bench position player.

[SAump]

Pics show parts of 2 collisions at HP
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/olympi...mslideshow&b=2

http://www.nbcolympics.com/baseball/...ive+times+wins

[TussAgee11]

If you go to the video on nbcolympics.com, and choose "baseball", you can find some videos.

I didn't have a problem with any of the hit batters except for the last US batter that were hit. The rest looked like tailing fastballs that just kept coming in, just grazing the batter.

4th inning, guy took one off the butt... this one didn't look good but it was before both collisions at the plate. No need to hit a batter there. This was the 4th batter hit, in a 4-0 game at the time.

Next came the two collisions, first one was R3's shoulder hitting the F2's knee on a dive towards the plate. I wouldn't even judge it as malicious.

Next one was malicious, but I'm not sure of rule code in Olympic play. Here is a baseball lesson for China, when there is no play at the plate, perhaps the catcher shouldn't be standing in the way...

Then, in the 7th, the kid who collided with F2 the first time got drilled in the head.

Looking at box score and highlights, this was no doubt a purpose pitch, but also no doubt the first one that could be recognized as such. Umpires ejected pitcher and pitching coach (manager had already been tossed). Guess you don't need a warning of the benches in international ball to get the acting manager run on a purpose pitch as well.

USA played the game hard, China got pissed and threw at the kid who knocked F2 out of the game.

Nice Olympic spirit showed by China - this is why IMO host countries should NOT have a free bid into every team event

[IceGator8]

I believe they play under IBAF rules.

If you watch the replay on the second collision you will note that the catcher was waiting for the thrown ball. The ball was almost to him when the runner plowed him.

I believe the collision was both intentional and malicious.

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

If you go to the video on nbcolympics.com, and choose "baseball", you can find some videos.

I didn't have a problem with any of the hit batters except for the last US batter that were hit. The rest looked like tailing fastballs that just kept coming in, just grazing the batter.

4th inning, guy took one off the butt... this one didn't look good but it was before both collisions at the plate. No need to hit a batter there. This was the 4th batter hit, in a 4-0 game at the time.

Next came the two collisions, first one was R3's shoulder hitting the F2's knee on a dive towards the plate. I wouldn't even judge it as malicious.

Next one was malicious, but I'm not sure of rule code in Olympic play. Here is a baseball lesson for China, when there is no play at the plate, perhaps the catcher shouldn't be standing in the way...

Then, in the 7th, the kid who collided with F2 the first time got drilled in the head.

Looking at box score and highlights, this was no doubt a purpose pitch, but also no doubt the first one that could be recognized as such. Umpires ejected pitcher and pitching coach (manager had already been tossed). Guess you don't need a warning of the benches in international ball to get the acting manager run on a purpose pitch as well.

USA played the game hard, China got pissed and threw at the kid who knocked F2 out of the game.

Nice Olympic spirit showed by China - this is why IMO host countries should NOT have a free bid into every team event

[SanDiegoSteve]

Don't stand on the track when the train is coming into the station. You want to man up and block the plate? Get ready to get knocked on your butt. Lefevre didn't have a good case for his argument, IMO.

On the other hand, the bean ball was definitely intentional revenge, and should have resulted in the pitcher's ejection. Davey Johnson shouldn't have had to argue about it.

Meanwhile, ain't it great the way the American gymnasts have been getting screwed by the judges? It's a real travesty and an injustice.

[BigTex]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Meanwhile, ain't it great the way the American gymnasts have been getting screwed by the judges? (

Where do I sign up to be a judge?

[David B]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Don't stand on the track when the train is coming into the station. You want to man up and block the plate? Get ready to get knocked on your butt. Lefevre didn't have a good case for his argument, IMO.

On the other hand, the bean ball was definitely intentional revenge, and should have resulted in the pitcher's ejection. Davey Johnson shouldn't have had to argue about it.

Meanwhile, ain't it great the way the American gymnasts have been getting screwed by the judges? It's a real travesty and an injustice.

Exactly. Well stated.

Lefevre should know better.

thanks
David

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by IceGator8

I believe they play under IBAF rules.

If you watch the replay on the second collision you will note that the catcher was waiting for the thrown ball. The ball was almost to him when the runner plowed him.

I believe the collision was both intentional and malicious.

Unless IBAF has a collision/malicious contact rule, the runner is allowed to run over a catcher who is in his way, waiting for a throw or otherwise. In straight OBR the ruling is what SDS said: You want to man up? Get ready for some contact.

On the gymnastics side, it's not so much the judges as it is the absurd rule that you can't have ties in gymnastics anymore. Even the head of the gymnastics governing body has said doesn't agree with it, but it's the IOC's call.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by SethPDX

On the gymnastics side, it's not so much the judges as it is the absurd rule that you can't have ties in gymnastics anymore. Even the head of the gymnastics governing body has said doesn't agree with it, but it's the IOC's call.

In the case of the "tie" on the Uneven Parallel Bars, Nastia actually outperformed the Chinese girl (not even 16, but that's another debate). The Australian judge apparently either is incompetent or blind or both if for not recognizing the many mistakes in the Chinese girl's performance. Nastia made only one small error, and should have won the Gold outright, not lost in a silly, moronic tie breaker. Just my correct opinion.

Oh, and Alicia Sacramone got totally hosed off the podium in the Vault by incompetent judges who awarded a medal to a Chinese girl who actually fell to her knees on her landing.

Nothing like good ol' home cooking!

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

In the case of the "tie" on the Uneven Parallel Bars, Nastia actually outperformed the Chinese girl (not even 16, but that's another debate). The Australian judge apparently either is incompetent or blind or both if for not recognizing the many mistakes in the Chinese girl's performance. Nastia made only one small error, and should have won the Gold outright, not lost in a silly, moronic tie breaker. Just my correct opinion.

Oh, and Alicia Sacramone got totally hosed off the podium in the Vault by incompetent judges who awarded a medal to a Chinese girl who actually fell to her knees on her landing.

Nothing like good ol' home cooking!

This is why, IMO, figure skaters, gymnasts, and any other athletes that are judged like this can't be compared to runners, swimmers, etc. when talking about the greatest Olympians. Clock don't lie (to paraphrase Rasheed Wallace).

[David B]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

In the case of the "tie" on the Uneven Parallel Bars, Nastia actually outperformed the Chinese girl (not even 16, but that's another debate). The Australian judge apparently either is incompetent or blind or both if for not recognizing the many mistakes in the Chinese girl's performance. Nastia made only one small error, and should have won the Gold outright, not lost in a silly, moronic tie breaker. Just my correct opinion.

Oh, and Alicia Sacramone got totally hosed off the podium in the Vault by incompetent judges who awarded a medal to a Chinese girl who actually fell to her knees on her landing.

Nothing like good ol' home cooking!

It's really a shame that gymnastics can't seem to find a way to get it right.

When it's obvious to the novice (watching someone fall, or someone make a big bobble like on the beam) that a mistake is made, you would think the judges could see it also.

Maybe they need to watch it on TV like the rest of us to get a better view (g)

They are going to end up like figure skating a few years back ...

Thanks
David