paid little league umps banned
 

Our little league district have chosen not to use some of their veteren umpires for alstar season, because they were paid through an umpire agency.
I was told that little league policy was that it was ok if you recieved gift certificates from leagues within the district from honigs ,outback, and duffys for services as an umpire. After more investigation almost all of the district staff had recieved gift certificates. This is my question for any who read this thread. Isnt being paid through a gift an ilegall act called fraud and being paid through an organization then the umpires recieving a 1099 form at the end of the year a legall way of paying them?Does little league have this one backwards?

I once heard of an umpire who was selected to do a high level (Regional, I believe) traveled to the site but was asked to go home because it was discovered that he had been paid to work LL baseball games.

It was policy in the District I worked in to not select umpires who were paid to work LL games for District and above games. "Pay" was interpreted as receiving money for services, not other types of 'recognition' for service to the league and district.

Yes, otherwise the "hot dog and coke" could be construed as "pay for services." Sheesh.:rolleyes:

Like Bob P just said, I think District is where they draw the line. Many Little Leagues do not have qualified "free" umpires at the local level, so they have to employ paid umpires. Once an all-star team advances to the District level, the volunteer umpires are a dime-a-dozen. Scratch that, 10 cents less a dozen than that!;)

This is one of the reasons many people will not deal with LL. I know of a father and son who worked for their local LL, got paid for the games they did and went to a regional clinic for training "All Star Umpires". They were charged $45 a piece for the clinic, $35 for the post season uniform shirts and hats and $5 for and "entry fee". When it came time for post season assignments, they were told that because they were "paid" for seasonal work, they were ineligible to work the post season. The Eastern Regional office in Bristol, CT, refused to reimburse them for all the money they paid out for the post season stuff. These guys were pretty good umpires so I talked them into training for our High School board. They have been with us for almost ten years now and never did another LL game!

The point I'm trying to make is that they are punishing the wrong umpires.Try to think of it from the IRS standpoint.
1. Umpires who recieve gift certificates for working games ( no taxes paid because it is a gift)
2. Umpires who were billing the leagues and paying taxes on their earnings through subcontrator form 1099

I think that if you recieve money or gift certificates it is compesation and should be taxed therfore those who recieved the gift certificates as payment are guilty of fraud. just my opinion.

You are joking, right?? This is pretty funny...:D :D

I think that fraud is too strong of a word BUT if you are given a gift certificate instead of money for officiating the value of the gift certificate is the same as being paid that amount of cash and is supposed to be reported as income on a Schedule C.

MTD, Sr.

Mark
I know this sounds like a joke to some , but to those umps that worked all season some paid games ,some not, only to find out that they cant work alstars is a kick in the (you know what).
Here's a point to ponder .If this is little leaguges policy ,their policy is encouraging the wrong thing is all I'm saying.
This is a big baseball organization,possibly the largest in the world.To have a policy that says gifts are okay to take but to take pay isn't okay is wrong.
I'll give you an example; two home building contractors making $100,000 a year each. one decides he's tired of giving his money to the government in income taxes . He tells his customers " Instead of paying invoices just give me a gift and if you give me enough I will continue to work for you if not I quit". The other contractor pays his taxes and continues to do his business the same way. Now the government has a big job they need done and they hire the contractor that doesnt pay taxes over the one that does.
Does that clear anything up?

No.

The government will "hire" the contractor who didn't pay taxes because s/he's also being provided room and board by the government at Leavenworth.

Bob,
Let me guess you are a Little league ump who was paid in gift certificates .
I got a twist to this story now.The umps were told if they pay back the league which paid them they could work in the alstars tournament. Could those leagues then return the returned money into gift certificates ? would this money laundring scheme be okay in little league policy?

First, you're not going to see this in writing from Williamsport. Plus, each area does it differently. Some regionals just don't care. Others, like SoCal, will frog march "offenders" off the property if your fellow umpires rat you out. And they will.

LL is, in theory per the rulebook, is an adult, volunteer work project. "There is no sound reason to pay umpires, or any other person whose services should be provided on a volunteer basis." says the book, for those that care to read it. Like it, or not, that's their stand.

Some umpires make a big deal about working post season games. If it's that huge to you, don't take compensation for LL games. Me, I don't care about working a TV game. If my local district needs help, I'm there. If not, I'll be a fan and watch the game. I've gone as far as Division, and it's not a goal of mine to work any further.

LL can afford to pick and chose who works games at the regional level. It's a simple supply and demand thing.

They can right now, but that might change with all the expense is costs to work any game at any level.

Does LL not allow ESPN to pay their employees to cover their games? Volunteer is great if you are talking about coaches and certain people, but not for something like umpiring which is after all a service.

Peace

The guys that run Little League and the regions do so as a full time job. They are paid. According to LL, about 60 people are paid and, by the way, the top people earn six figure salaries.

I have a friend who worked the LLWS in Williamsport last year. They put him in a hotel room (alone, so he could bring his wife or anyone he chose), gave him a stipend for meals, and most of his expenses were covered.

I've worked a regional. I was provided a room and I paid a small supplement so it could be a solo room (I travel for business and sharing a hotel room with a stranger is not something I'd relish). We were given meal tickets for the field which, frankly, I never completely used.

Fair is decided by those who get to do the choosing. If you don't like their terms, no matter what region and what terms, don't work the games.

You are right that the any of us can decide whether to work the games, but when you expect things so drastically different from a segment of the operation that would get paid normally, without these stupid conditions, then you drastically limit the pool. In turn drastically limits the talent you have to make your organization look good. And maybe that is why regular umpires cringe when they watch LL games on TV.

It is not my organization and I personally do not care what they do. But I know I would want the best people at what they do available to work our most important games. And as you suggest if everyone else that is running the tournament getting paid, why not the umpires?

Peace

noleump:

You are missing my point. I did not comment on the pros and cons of LL not using paid umpires. My comment dealt only with the fact that receiving a gift card for services rendered is the same as receiving cash and needs to be reported as income. Example: When I have officiated AAU National Basketball Tournaments. My hotel room was free. If the value was the room was $50 per night, I declared $50 per night as income on my Schedule C and then $50 per night as a lodging deduction on my Schedule C. This is perfectly legal and what the IRS expects one to do. The gift card that the umpire received from the LL organization for services rendered is compensation for services rendered and must be declared as income.

Now if you want to discuss unpaid vs. paid umpires for LL, I want to be paid for my services, PERIOD!! I think that is wonderful that the coaches, parents, and league officials donate their time, but umpires are professionals needed to adjudicate the game and should be compensated on a per game basis. I do not buy into LL's position that a true umpires will donate his time. Tell that to my liability insurance carrier when I am hit with a frivolous lawsuit by a sue happy parent and his lawyer.

MTD, Sr.

Hi,

I have been lurking for around 3 months now and had to make an account today to chime in on this post.

I am involved with my local little league and am on the board of directors. It is so hard finding umpires to work for the $25 that we can afford to pay a game. We have 450 kids and 4 fields. Our senior field is the same dimensions as wrigley field and we need to pay 2 umpires per game for those. The only free umpires we get is when one of us board members have to step in and ump because no one showed up.

We 2 board members quit the board because they wanted to be paid to umpire. I do not blame them but one of them is the little league district umpire in chief. Kind of a smack to the face to the little league policy of volunteering :).

Anyway love the site keep up the discussions some of it is rubbing off

Not a good guess. I worked two years of LL in the early 1980s. I got paid.

My point was generally the same as Mark's -- whether you are paid in cash, a check at the game, periodic checks by an association or in "gift certificates" it's pay accoridng to the IRS and should be reported on your tax forms.

Every year since Jesus played in the first LL world series, (his team of course won), the LL organization has cared more about one thing, than the umps getting paid, their own image, who wins or loses, what is or is not compensation and the good of the sport, and that is, how much revenue they bring from TV.

If you believe otherwise, I got some good land in Florda for a cheap price, just waiting for you to buy.

I think that is wonderful that the coaches, parents, and league officials donate their time, but umpires are professionals needed to adjudicate the game and should be compensated on a per game basis.

But umpires need not be "professionals". It's not rocket science. IMO, being a Player Agent in a local LL is FAR more complicated and time consuming than working a Majors dish a couple times a week. Not even close.

I've got no problem with anyone taking money for any game, anywhere. But LL can afford to be selective on who umpires games at certain levels because there's a huge pool to choose from.

The reason I started this thread was to hear what you thought about paid umpires told stories about gift certificates were allowed and pay was not allowed. As most of you have pointed out it is the same thing. So why do the guys who recieve gift certificates rat on the guys who got paid?Then they sit at that table in front of everyone(the one where the microphone and trophys are) at the anual banquet and act like their poop dont stink.From what I heard is a policy that is not written anywhere and no person from williamsport will validate.Shame on you!!!!!!!In my book thats called being a hypocrite .
Thanks to all who stayed on topic.
I guess its one of those things where you cant fight city hall.As a bystander I just want to slap those rats who are so called in charge and hug the guys left out of alstars.
Supply and demand is a great analagy for this as one of you pointed out.Perhaps the guys when asked to work next season will say "no f*****n way!

Or maybe those who accept money will play by the rules.

Anyone who umpires Little League on a regular basis knows what the policies are for their area. If you knew this going in, you know why you weren't selected. If not selected this year, then you know what you have to do next year -- either not accept money or work somewhere else.

You know the policy. You know the practice. You can choose to play, quit or whine. No one has a gun to your head.

LL has encouraged umpires to lie for years. Each year you can find an umpire at the LLWS who has worked for pay.

(Before you ask me what my certificate was good for...I don't work Little League, Pony, USSSSSSSSSSSSSSA or any other little boy baseball.)

If you want to understand my slap to others who belive this malarky. read above posts , wait I'll hightlight it for you.
volunteer umpire #1 makes $350 in gift certificates . Rats on guys who are paid in cash. Sits at head table of anual LL district banquet.Talks about the rule that everyone knows but isnt written anywhere and how it should be followed and if you don't like it get out!!
volunteer umpire #2 makes $350 in cash .Is told fairy tails of rules. sits in the back of the banquet. decides he's not a good umpire and quits.

I feel sorry for both of these types actually!I have worked with both types, and niether is any better thatn the other. One type can hide better than the other type. I have taken a side in this within my district and will probabbly be outcast for standing up for volunteer#2. No big loss.

Yeah. We get it.

Are you an adult? Move on, unless of course you prefer to keep whining.

Mrumpire
I'm 49 ,but probably not an adult by your standards. Who may ask is the "we" in the "we get it"?As for whinning you're right about that. I think in a forum it goes on .So get over it!
My conclusion is you dont want to hear it as it is in our district and all of LL.
The solution to the problem is to walk away from these guys and turn my back on them. I think they did know better. I guess I felt sorry for them because the other ones took gift certificates,which to me sounded as bad.
So will join the gift certificate group and try to get to the big table!!!!NOT!!!!!

Gift certificates, hats, shirts, equipment, hot dogs or cash (which is just as good as money) are all the same. It's compensation for your time. A "thank you", if you will.

I work for a defense contractor, and we have very specific guidelines as to how much of a "thank you" we can give our customers. I think it's down to $5 now. And that's a cheap pen. No more wining and dining the generals and admirals, everything's reportable. LL should have the same standard, IF they wish to be consistent. If not, then they should shut up about it, IMO.

I'm a UIC of a local. I've given NB plate shoes and WV Golds to my volunteer guys. Is that payment? Damn right it is. How about those embroidered Honig's shirt I get for tourney work? Yep. Hats, pins and all the popcorn chicken my patent leather belt will allow. Yes sir, that's payment.

Now, here's my real beef. Why is anyone whining about this? Why are people lining up to do these games, and then complaining about the process to get there? It is what it is. I mean, PAID umpires are in such short supply, and some of you are complaining about being shut out of volunteering for LL games. STFU!

Maybe so, but it's also not news, either. H3ll, I've only been back in the US for 18 months, and I'd heard this "news" more than once since then. (Oz just started LL, from what I understand - or, more accurately, LL hasn't been all over the country there yet.) So how much of a kick in the groin is that, really?

So if you want to "rise" to the top at Williamsport, work for free all year. Good luck with that.

It doesn't take luck, as there's a huge group of guys/gals that volunteer for decades to get a chance at Williamsport. Supply is not a problem in this equation.

First off these so called "gift certificates" must total $600.00 or greater otherwise they are not taxable.

This was one of the drawbacks when our association changed payment polices. We now get paid directly through one location which means 1099 time.

When were on the "vouchering system" from each school as long as we did not go over $600.00 for that particular school we were fine.

In summary: It depends upon the value of these so called "gift certificates"

Pete Booth

Just because you don't get a 1099 doesn't mean it's not taxable income. A gift certificate for $20 is just as taxable as a $20 game check. It's ALL taxable. Payments of $600 or more generate a 1099 which means that if you're a tax cheat and don't declare your officiating income, you can't get away with it since it's being reported to the IRS.

But getting a 1099 isn't a problem for those of us who file honest tax returns every year.

Rich,

It's my understanding that if our pay doesn't reach $600 we need not report this as income on a 1099.


Tim.

The *association* (or paying organization) needs to issue a 1099 only if the paymetns are $600 or more. They can issue one for less.

The *umpire* must (well, is supposed to) declare the income whether or not they receive the 1099.

Tim:

Rich is correct. A 1099 is only generated when one (1) entity pays another entity $600 or more in a given tax year. He is also correct that in the immortal words of Yogi Berra, late of AFLAC commercials, that a gift certificate is the same as "cash which is just as good as money."

MTD, Sr.

Tim,

As Bob said, the assignor or whoever is paying issues the 1099. I filed before receiving a 1099 last year, but it was no big deal because all the income was included on my return, 1099 or no 1099. ALL income is taxable.

--Rich

Thanks, guys. I work enough in several leagues and through my association that I'm always over the $600 and have to fill out a 1099 anyway. But there are a lot of guys I know who think they're clear from reporting this income if it doesn't exceed $600 from any given league. I'll have to "coach" them up a bit.


Tim.

$600 from a single customer is the threshold for reporting on a 1099. $1 is the threshold for reporting on a 1040. All income is reportable; the taxable portion is unique to each taxpayer.

To sum this story up. Today the guys were reinstated .They paid the league back the money the had recieved from the ump association , and I heard they were issued gift certificates from honigs in the exact dollar amount. The league president wants next year to just handle it this way instead of an association. Thanks to all who commented . One point that was brought up that I never thought of was why does little league allow leagues to pay to begin with they should pull their chapter. Peace!!!!!

But they still have to declare the value of the gift certificates as income to Uncle Sam.

MTD, Sr.

So have I .. they wear the XXXL:D

There's nothing illegal about a local LL paying umpires. The book says there's no good reason they should, but it's not a "crime" to do so.

Right. After all, it's "for the kids", right ?

I thought it was the responsibility of the entity who paid the $600.00 to complete the 1099, not the recipient. I receive 1099s from several school systems and one municipality each year, but do not remember ever completing one.

Are you completing, perhaps, a W-9?

It is. Tim was apparently confused.

I thought it was anything over $300 that the recipient had to report, and $600 the minimum for the assignor/association/etc.

All income is taxable for Federal Income taxes.

There is a threshold for self-employment taxes (SS, Medicare), which is $400 net income (at least that's what it was recently).

Rich, you are close
 

It is $600 not $400. Also if you receive more than $600 from one outfit for services (like a school for example) they have to file a Form 1099.

Got it, that's probably what I was thinking of. Thanks!

Now, here's my real beef. Why is anyone whining about this? Why are people lining up to do these games, and then complaining about the process to get there? It is what it is. I mean, PAID umpires are in such short supply, and some of you are complaining about being shut out of volunteering for LL games. STFU!


The "whining" comes from people who are trying to figure out how a big time organization can sell itself as an above board no hokey-pork volunteer umpire group while receiving gift cards ..some amounting to enough to trade-in (right) for Sea Kayaks and all associated gear, but can still work "big post season games ie:district and above. While others who opt for cash..like the guy who wants a second job for pocket money..is trying to help an organization and himself, gets pissed-on.

And before I get ripped for being bitter...I don't do LL for reasons too many to list here.

Just don't pass oneself off as a volunteer with a backdoor compensation package that doesn't get 1099'd as taking the high ground.

Flame on.....

to R. Patrino....you know that about every 200 or so LL thread I gotta chime in !Oh how I don't miss those days.... Can't help it my friend:)

griff

..and when you finish buying that land, you can make another trip to CDP ;)

My conclusion is, this issue greatly troubles you, and it is a valid position. However, you damage your case through continued ranting on the same point, accusing others of hidden motives, and general peevishness caused by the forum's apparent unwillingness to take the Banner of Nole's Truth and storm the battlements with you.

Good luck, Don (Quixote) :D

Lman
You are very perceptive and Don is my real name. almost scary!!!! Nobody will be on my side .I'm used to it . Sorry if the ranting disturbed you.I'm over it now.May I return to my padded cell?

Rich is actually correct. The self-employment tax (FICA/SS) only has to be paid if you make over $400. The income tax (Fed. Withholding on a paycheck) is charged on everything you earn.

You are, however, correct, on the $600 single payer 1099 requirement.

Don't misunderstand, I sympathize with your position. But personal attacks on anyone who may dare to offer another POV is counterproductive.

I disagree. Oh, and you're an idiot for thinking otherwise, LMan.............:p

Tim.

I think that W-port should quietly drop the policy about paid umpires. Don't ask, don't tell.

Continue to have unpaid umps at Regionals and WS, fine. That's all the general populace and media care about--if they even give a thought to it.

Give me an arbiter who has experience with HS, Legion, BRuth, etc. (with a sub-specialty in LL) over the chap who does solely volunteer LL any day of the week.

I can already feel the flames.


Ace in CT

You go Griff!! We have been down the road a few times ourselves, have we not?

Well, sure, but what if that arbiter had been paid with IHOP coupons? :eek:

And he says IHOP like its a 'bad' thing...sheeze.

IHOP ? Is that where one-legged waitresses (or servers, if you prefer) work ? :D

You're thinking of Eileen over at the drive-thru. Or else Irene at the Japanese place.

What about Ben Dover, Neil and Bob?

Hey all,

Or those guys that are always hanging around, Curt and Rod?

LomUmp:cool:

or that guy at your front door.....Mat....or that other guy in your yard...Russel....... ok I'm done.

griff

ok Im not done.....that guy in your hot tub..Stew....NOW I'm done

griff