Perfect games (cont.)

greymule · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 29, 2002, 04:58pm

Looks as if we lost some threads, but to continue with the discussion of perfect games:

You are correct, bluezebra. Ernie Shore's game is no longer on the official list except as a footnote, along with perfect games broken up in extra innings, shortened by rain, or thrown by multiple pitchers. I guess they felt that although Shore got 27 outs in 26 batters, the game itself was not perfect.

However, as for the original question, a dropped foul ball scored as an error would STILL not negate the pitcher's perfect game. The scorer wouldn't have to cheat. Can't cite a game as evidence, though. A look through the box scores of the perfect games this century, on the chance that the winning side might have had an error, came up dry.

If you're the starting pitcher, you go the distance (at least 9 innings), and you allow no runners to reach first safely, you get credit for a perfect game. I would guess that you would be credited with a perfect game even in a 0-0 rainout after 9 or more innings.

bluezebra · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 30, 2002, 02:31am

"If you're the starting pitcher, you go the distance (at least 9 innings), and you allow no runners to reach first safely, you get credit for a perfect game. I would guess that you would be credited with a perfect game even in a 0-0 rainout after 9 or more innings."

Wrong again. The pitcher must pitch a COMPLETE game to get a perfecto, or even a plain old no-hitter. A tie game not played out, is NOT a complete game. Harvey Haddix had his removed because he gave up a hit and run in the 13th inning. Pittsburgh also made an error in the 13th, which is listed as breaking the perfect streak. Pedro Martinez lost his in the 10th.

There have been 14 official perfect games since 1901, including Larsen's in the '56 WS. None of the winning teams made an error. There have been four "unofficial" perfect games. They're unofficial because they didn't go nine innings.

These are the MLB criteria: "What is a perfect game in baseball? A complete game with no hits, no walks, no errors and no hit batters are all (sounds easy!) that is required to join this group of elite perfect pitchers."

Like it or not, an error (even though it's not the pitcher's fault) negates the perfect game.

Bob

greymule · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 30, 2002, 09:47am

This time you're not correct, bluezebra.

"Go the distance" means pitch a complete game.

A tie game not played out (rained out, for example) is indeed a complete game. All records count, and another game is played. Suspended games (light failure, curfew) are not complete games until they are continued and finished.

Whether a pitcher gets credit for a perfect game that ends in a tie is another question.

Harvey Haddix lost his perfect game because Don Hoak's error allowed a runner to reach first, not simply because an error was committed. The MLB criteria you cite are not definitive. They meant (but neglected to say) "no errors that allow a runner to reach base."

bluezebra · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 30, 2002, 09:22pm

"4.12 SUSPENDED GAMES.

(a) A league shall adopt the following rules providing for completion at a future date of games terminated for any of the following reasons:

(4) Darkness, when a law prevents the lights from being turned on.

(b) Such games shall be known as suspended games. No game called because of a curfew, weather, or a time limit shall be a suspended game unless it has progressed far enough to have been a regulation game under the provisions of Rule 4.10. A game called under the provisions of 4.12(a), (3) or (4) shall be a suspended game at any time after it starts.

Our Class A team plays the local college tuesday nite. I'll check with the official scorer to see if his instruction book gives the criteria. OBR isn't very clear.

Bob

greymule · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Apr 04, 2002, 07:26am

From Steve Greenberg, former Deputy Commissioner of MLB:
"Despite the error on the foul pop, if nobody reaches first base safely, it would certainly be a perfect game. As for the 9-inning scoreless tie, I think that MLB would consider that a perfect game also. It's an official game, the stats would all count, and the game would be replayed."

bluezebra · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 05, 2002, 03:19pm

I checked with the official scorer, and another knowledgeable person, at the Class A park where I work. I was wrong for the third time in my life. The first was not making a career of the Marine Corps. The second was my first marriage, which wouldn't have happened if I stayed in the Corps. Third, is on the perfect game criteria, which has nothing to do with my leaving the Corps.

Bob