Calling what you see or what they see
 

Have had two situations this year where I called something no one else saw. Caught grief both times and while that doesn't bother me, it's made me think about the idea of calling what you see and know vs calling what everyone else percieves.

#1. Lt handed batter, pitch is way outside, he steps in to avoid, I track the pitch and see it BRUSH the back of his leg, pants were baggy and it definitely moved the fabric. I call dead ball, kid is saying, No I didn't get hit, coach is saying he didn't get hit. I explain what I saw, take your base. Coach is mad I just put his best hitter on base.

#2 I'm in C, playing inside the base path, ball hit hard on the ground toward me, I step to avoid and it takes a strange hop and I feel it brush my leg, it keeps going, F6 misses it behind me and it's heading merrily to the outfield. I yell dead ball, eveyone stops, I announce I was hit, award bases, etc, offense is mad because bases were loaded and it was a double at least. Between innings I ask my partner what he saw, he says he thought I dodged it and he never saw the ball veer like it had richocheted off me.

Two situations where I was apparantly the only one who saw something that impacted the game. In both cases I could have ignored what I saw and felt and no one would have known. I feel though if I'm going to do this job and have any integrity as an umpire, I have to call what I see and not what is percieved by the players, coaches etc.

Any thoughts?

Why did you kill the play on the second one that you mentioned??

OBR 5.09 (f) I was inside the baselines, F6 was playing back behind me

If there was no clear audible evidence, I'd let them both go.

I would have used a bit better timing on the first one. Maybe the wind from the baseball moved the pantleg. :)

One the second one, I'm killing it immediately before the defense turns two and I have to piss everyone off. If I feel it hit me, it's umpire interference.

It's happened twice, once in 2000 and once this spring. Both times the defense claims I cost them 2 and the offense claimed it would've been a hit to the outfield. No sympathy for either, frankly, just pain. Both shots were metal-bat-induced laser beams that (fortunately) found flesh, not bone.

Still not following why you killed it if it hit you???

Because it's the rule. Umpire interference. Same application in FED/NCAA/OBR. On a batted ball that hasn't passed a runner, the umpire is not "just part of the field."

[QUOTE]First things first DO NOT CALL - Dead ball The proper call is TIME

You call what you see because you are not Krescan and do not know what the ramifications are if you do not call it. In your first case you do not know that the coach is going to say he didn't get hit. Suppose you do not call it and the batter, F2 and coach KNEW the batter was hit and the say

C'mmon Blue the ball hit him. Are you going to say "yeah I know but too bad" The point is you do not KNOW so you call what you see

Again do not yell Dead ball. As mentioned above the call is TIME

As with number 1 you do not know the reprocussions if you do not call it. How do you know that the defense would not have turned an easy DP. In this particular case the ball went through for a hit but you do know that at the precise TIME you are hit with the ball.

Also, suppose the coach now questions you are you going to say "yeah skip the ball hit me but I chose to ignore"

On the plays mentioned you call what you see. Also, get out of the habit of calling Dead ball.

Pete Booth

OBR rules...5.09 (f) ball becomes dead and runners advance one base....IF... a fair ball...on fair territory...touches an umpire before it has passed an infielder other than the pitcher.

clear enough?

[QUOTE=PeteBooth]On the first part I agree, hence my statement about it making me question my integrity if I don't call what I see. As for what the ramifications might have been from calling it or not, I agree I don't know, they don't know, we call what we see and let God sort it out.

On the dead ball call, I was taught to say that while calling HS ball with a TASO chapter. Is this a regional preference, deadball vs time or is time what is used in the pro's?

There is no situation where I will announce "Dead Ball!"

Pro instruction is to call "Time!" or "Foul Ball!" (as appropriate).

Sit #1:

First thing you should always take your time on a play like this and let the players tell you what happen or give an indication of what happen. If the player is not selling that they got hit, then it is easy. If the batter does not give you a clear indication, then you have to make a decision. I think if you waited you would not have sent the batter to first.

Sit #2:

IMO this is an obvious call. You were hit and the fielder clearly misplayed the ball. Who cares what the offense says at that point, but you probably should be quick to make that call. All I can say after that is try not to get hit. That is sometimes easier said than done, but it is not very common.

Peace

The teacher taught you wrong. It's Time, not dead ball. It is regional, if what you mean by regional is worldwide.

Great reply. I've had several HBP situations where I wasn't 100% sure. I made my best decision which was based on what I saw/heard and read the batter, if they agree then its easy. If they don't agree ... thats what we get paid for ... to make the tough decisions.

My only addition would be call what you see thats what you're out there for. You are the trained 'professional' on the field. But also don't go looking for things to call which don't necessarily need to be.

A perfect example of that would be a pitcher with a white Nike TPX or other logo on his glove. I've never seen one ;), Until the other coach brings it up. Oh, your right coach, I'm sorry I didn't notice that."

Clearly, you interfered, since you saw contact and the fielder misplayed the ball as a result. Your partner's opinion gives you no help, since all he can say is "I didn't see the interference," not that there was none.

Nobody likes to umpire interference, but it sounds like the right call here.

If you call "Dead Ball" in one of my classes, we hold a funeral for the ball, I deliver a eulogy and we "bury" the ball in your shirt until the next break!

ozzy,

I was helping teach at a "youth umpire" clinic earlier this season, and one of my colleagues was demonstrating how to "kill it" when a runner interferes with a protected fielder attempting to field a fair batted ball.

He held up both hands and said (forcefully), "DEAD BALL!"

While conducting our "post-clinic" over adult beverages, I suggested that "TIME!" would be a more proper vocalization (following ANY event other than an uncaught foul ball) to indicate that the ball was no longer in play.

Anyway, I posted a "poll" on the subject on Rob Drake's website, and of the 43 respondents, 39 said they used "TIME!" exclusively, 2 said they used "Dead Ball", and 2 said they used each, depending on the situation.

During the year, I had the opportunity to work a Varsity DH with one of the other instructors. He had the plate the 2nd game, a batter was HBP and he came out from behind the plate, threw both hands in the air, declared "DEAD BALL!", and pointed the batter to 1B with his left hand.

He then looked at me, rolled his eyes, and gave a discreet "my bad" chest tap. When he got back behind the plate. He made a sign of the cross in front of his chest and bowed his head. I was cracking up.

Later in the game, another batter was HBP, and this time he came out with a big "TIME!" - he then looked at me, and I gave him the secret "good call" sign and HE started cracking up. A fun day at the ballfield.

JM

Whats the conundrum? Either case.."ya just gotta umpire". Usually your first instinct is the right call. You see the ball hit him, give him first. Who put the ball there? The defense. You see it hit him, he gets first. What, now we are going to determine by how much the ball hits him? It either did or didnt. The OC wants him to keep batting this time, but another time if its the #9 hitter, he will be all over you if you dont put him on first. The spot in the line-up shouldnt dictate whether or not he gets first. As well as if anyone else saw it or not. You did, he goes to first.

As for the other sitch, well, same thing. The ball hit you, call time, and handle it. Probably either way on that one coach or the other will be upset. But hey, it happens sometimes. Despite your best efforts to do the macarena and get out of the way, the ball finds you. Again, we are not going to determine how much of the batted ball hit the umpire. It did or didnt.

I got it, I see it, i understand it , I will not pronouce a ball to be dead from this point hence.

Unless the cover gets knocked off, dog takes it or it kills an errant seagull swooping down.

Dan,

Careful there....

If the cover gets knocked off the ball, the ball remains in play until the continuous action of the play relaxes.

If a dog takes it, the ball remains in play until the dog enters DBT.

If it kills an errant seagull (unless it's a "pitch" at the time it does so), the seagull may be dead, but the ball remains in play.

Really. ;)

JM

Good questions. Often, you are the only one who sees something that should result in a call.

#1 Did it brush the loose fabric or hit his leg? Make a call and stick to it. Do you give a sh*t whether coach is mad about a call?

#2 Why ask your partner when you know the ball hit you? He can't add to that info. If you don't call it and are asked by defensive coach are you going to lie about it? Where do you draw the line on ethics?

And by the way, don't get hit by batted balls...

Pro instruction is to call "Time!" or "Foul!" (as appropriate).

You sure about the dog? I had it happen once in a youth game and once I say that the dog had "control" of the ball, I gave the sign for spectator's interference and placed the runners. I never got an argument from anyone on the field and my assigner said that he felt that was the right thing to do. But now I wonder........?!?!?

ozzy,

Well, to be honest, no, I'm not sure about the dog.

I was simply going by:

Were it to actually occur in a game I was working, I suspect (hope) I would treat it as "spectator interference" as well - plus, then I'd get to use the cool spectator interference mechanic which I've never had the opportunity to use.

JM

Here, piggy, piggy!
 

And if a pig takes it and eats it, it's an "inside-the-pork" home run! :D
A.

And its stories like this...that are the reason I umpire

I agree with 1 & 3...but I don't know about #2. Seems to me it is INTENTIONAL interference by authorized personnel (assuming the dog is the team mascot!). Rule 3.15...I'm killing the ball immediately!

Also, I believe an additional penalty at the end of playing action is that the player killing the seagull has to be arrested in tribute to Dave Winfield.

LOL :D