Bunt question

[danvers]

Michael,

Thanks for providing a reference and for not adopting a condescending or patronizing tone. This is obviously something that I'm going to have to put some thought and study into. If the consensus goes against me--and I doubt that I'm going to find anything for PONY ball that will shut down on the LL reference--I'll change my call. If I'm going to change the call, though, I'd really like to have an explanation that would make me feel more comfortable with the ruling :-) Anyway, here's where I am according to the discussion....

If a batter strikes at a pitch, he's usually trying to intentionally meet that pitch. He declares his intent by the act of swinging. If he misses, we call the strike whether the pitch is in the strike zone or not. We know that he "went," and we call accordingly.

If a batter prepares to bunt a pitch, he's often trying to intentionally meet that pitch. He doesn't declare his intent by the act of swinging (otherwise, it wouldn't be a bunt), so we have no way of determining intent unless he makes contact. My approach, which has been to determine intent by the fact that the batter overtly gives up his declaration and "pulls back," is not valid. Subsequently, I have no physical cues by which to determine intent, and I'm left with calling only the zone or the foul--no matter how much my brain tells me that he "went."

~~Dan

The best way to determine if a bunt should be called on the attempt is if moves the bat toward the ball. You will be told the proper method for bunting is to "catch the ball with the bat" so you actually move it backwards from the ball. Even using that you still have to move the bat toward or in the path of ball. If he squares and does nothing else then call the pitch on location. If the batter does anything you deem as go after the ball the you have an attempt. Hope this helps.

[danvers]

Originally posted by Michael Taylor
The best way to determine if a bunt should be called on the attempt is if moves the bat toward the ball. You will be told the proper method for bunting is to "catch the ball with the bat" so you actually move it backwards from the ball. Even using that you still have to move the bat toward or in the path of ball. If he squares and does nothing else then call the pitch on location. If the batter does anything you deem as go after the ball the you have an attempt. Hope this helps.

Okay, now I'm almost back to square one.... Every coach I had from LL through college taught me to track the ball with my hands on a bunt, and (naturally) I've always taught that as well--start high, use the legs, and track with the hands and eyes so that you don't end up making a last second stab or jerk.

Once you get past the 9-10y level, I don't see many players that simply put the bat over the plate. I see some that don't stand in long enough and show a strong commitment to the defense on a fake, but very few that just stand there.

Likewise, I see some that are tracking and positioning, but they're not sure enough on the close pitch, and they don't make a timely attempt to get the bat back and clearly declare that they're not commiting. If I'm going to call that player for a strike on the close pitch because he used what I consider to be good form, I can't feel good about calling a ball on the same pitch for a player who uses what I consider poor form. But that's what I'm hearing I should do.

~~Dan

[Jackie W.]

Obviously you guys aren't going to agree totally on this. So, this is my observation: I'm not the only one with PMS here, so can we agree to disagree and find a new subject to squabble over?

Much obliged in Minnesota

[BlueGhost_Scout]

I believe I said that if the batter had at least started an attemt at the ball, and that in my judgement, if he did not convince my judgement that he had apropiately stopped that attempt, that I would call a strike, pretty much regardless of location. No different than a swing that is way early / late /high /low.

If a batter puts his bat at the top of the strike zone, and the ball is 1 inch above the strike zone, and the batter does not move the bat up to meet the ball, is it a ball or a strike? What about if it is 2 inches above the strike zone / bat? And maybe 3 inches? Where do we stop? Umpires judgement. If the bat is anywhere close to the ball (1", 2", 3" yes. 1 foot, probably not, 2 feet, no), with or without motion, I normally judge that this batter is trying to bunt this ball.

[phillycheese]

Geez, I guess we need to keep teaching kids to pull the bat back so the umpire won't think he's trying to make contact and to avoid a strike call. That just perpetuates the myth though that you have to pull the bat back to avoid an attempt. The rule says that you have to make an offer at the pitch, not that you have to make an attempt to not offer at the pitch. I suppose the hands are still part of the bat. I'm not trying to be condescending, as i definitely don't have enough experience to do so, but this kind of thread is frustrating to read.

[etbaseball]

Gentlemen....

Judge if the batter, however subtley (sic) or not, made an attempt at the pitch. If he made, in your JUDGEMENT an attempt, then call a strike. You're getting paid to make judgements, that's all this is. Read and measure what the batter does. Does he 'offer' at the pitch? Strike. If you're convinced that he did not offer, then judge the pitch a ball or called strike. It's simple; you don't need to make it more complicated than it really is.