Rulebook 8.05 Comment
 

8.05 Comment: b) With a runner on first base the pitcher may make a complete turn, without hesitating toward first, and throw to second. This is not to be interpreted as throwing to an unnoccupied base.

Some umpires in my association weren't sure what this wording implies. Does it mean that the pitcher can start his motion and wheel to second regardless of whether R1 is stealing? Or does R1 have to be stealing before he throws to second base?

One would think that everytime there is R1, 2 out and a 3-2 count, the pitcher would simply do his leg kick, then whirl around and throw out R1 at 2nd, but I never see this done.

The runner must have started an attempt toward second base, whether or not he returns to first is irrelevant.

Base runners should not leave on a 3-2 count with two outs until they are certain that the pitcher has committed to home plate. The majority of baserunners won't fall for any shenanigans from the pitcher.

When the pitcher moves forward toward the plate with his kick leg, he can no longer make that move to second base. He must lift his non pivot leg and immediately do one of the following 3 things: a) spin around toward second, b) step and throw to first, or c) pitch the ball. If he hesitates with his leg in the air or first steps toward first, he then cannot throw or feint to second.

Think of it a F1 making a legal move to 1st, R1 takes off as F1 is in the process. As long as F1 continues to follow R1 around without any stop or hesitation, F1 may make a complete turn to 2nd & fire. The rule was really designed for the RHP and it really looks awkward when attempted. In almost 30 years, I have yet to have a RHP perform this move without me balking him. They always seem to have to hesitate half way through the move. The LHP has no problem with this because he is facing R1 all the time, so to spin with him is no problem.

Suppose this CMT wasn't in the book. Then take this play: R1 only. F1 in set. R1 breaks for second (early). F1 turns counterclockwise past first and throws to second to retire R1. (The move F1 makes is the same as the "outside" move he might make if there was an R2, and is otherwise a legal move.).

WITHOUT the comment, too many players, coaches and even umpires would say that "F1 made a move toward first (the counterclockwise movement) and didn't throw to first, so it's a balk."

The CMT makes it clear that as long as there's not a step (or other "hesitation") to first as part of this move, the move is legal.

But the comment mentions only that there is a runner on first and not that the runner needs to have started an attempt toward second base.

To me, the wording implies that so long as there is a runner at 1B, the pitcher may throw to 2B without the penalty for throwing to an unoccupied base.

What am I missing?

You're missing the meaning of "unoccupied base" and the only reasonable interpretation of the rule, which has already been posted.

Thanks for the clarification guys.

While we're on the subject, I had always thought that with R1, a right handed pitcher had to step directly towards first base to try a pickoff, and bringing the free foot up committed him to throwing to home plate. If he brings his free foot straight up, is it now not impossible for the pitcher to step towards first and throw without first stepping towards home plate?

not impossible... although its normally followed by a step of the pivot foot in order to gain balance...

Old School rule of thumb:
"If I see the underside of your free foot, you'd better go to the plate!" Pitchers are notorious for raising their foot nice and high when they want to pitch. So when they attempt to fool the runner, they usually mess up in this regard. That is why I taught my son a good slide step move.

This comes up on the boards from time to time. If the foot or knee moves toward third or towards the "balance point" (coach speak), then F1 is committed to throw to the base being faced, home or second -- he can't throw to the base behind him (first, for a RH pitcher).

I see ID theft is again popular on this site. I guess when "canadaump6_ " didn't work out, another target was needed.

My answer was the physiology :) Our Canadian friend did not ask if it was legal or not, just if it was possible.

Thank you. We'll look at it.

I'm still baffled as to why I don't see the balance point, then spin and throw to second base move ever performed. If a right handed pitcher goes into his balance point and hears someone say "he's going", he can easily spin and throw to second to get the runner.

Any takers?

Alright, I'll give it a shot. If a runner is going, it's too late to tell the pitcher, who's leg is already raised, to spin and throw without balking. It would require some hesitation on the pitcher's part, which would result in a balk. The move must be in a continuous motion, with no hesitation or stopping of momentum to be legal. In order to execute the spin move, it needs to be a planned out move by the pitcher, not something he thinks about at the last second.

The move is usually just used to drive the runner back to 2nd base so he will shorten his lead on the next pitch, knowing that the pitcher may try to pick him off, and therefore not getting as good a jump on a base hit. That little edge can mean the difference between a runner scoring or being thrown out at the plate.

(Taking off umpiring hat)

Because most pitchers with a runner on first will not take as long in their leg lift and drive to the plate... so there is really no time for somebody to yell at him, him realize, turn to second without ever moving towards the plate or hanging a leg.

If a pitcher can do this, he's probably wayyy to slow to the plate to begin with.

(Putting back on umpiring hat)

[QUOTE=SanDiegoSteve]Alright, I'll give it a shot. If a runner is going, it's too late to tell the pitcher, who's leg is already raised, to spin and throw without balking. It would require some hesitation on the pitcher's part, which would result in a balk. The move must be in a continuous motion, with no hesitation or stopping of momentum to be legal. In order to execute the spin move, it needs to be a planned out move by the pitcher, not something he thinks about at the last second. [QUOTE]

The pitcher isn't likely to hesitate if he knows 100% that the runner is going. Take this situation; 3-2 count, 2 outs, runner on first. Everybody knows the runner is going, so the pitcher should have no problem making a continuous transition from balance point to turning and throwing to 2nd.

The runner shouldn't go until F1 commits to the plate -- that is, starts forward from the balance point. Now if F1 throws to second, it's a balk.

I've seen it but not as umpire. It was one of my son's Babe Ruth games and his team's pitcher did it.

Offensive coach started screaming balk. His runner was able to get back to first safely.

Umpire made the right call.

Rita

I think it might be as simple as what you see as the balance point and what others see as the balance point are different.

At the pro clinics I've attended we were taught that the RH pitcher is allowed to step to first and throw as long as his leg rise, did not simulate the leg rise of his delivery and that the intial direction of that step was smoothly and continuously toward first.

In practice, they concentrated more on the distance of the foot coming up rather than the knee, and they didn't allow it to come up very far.

I have seen this move in the pros, but it occurs far less than a jump turn, jab step or disengaging. The fear of a balk may well play a part in that.