Mets/Yankees
 

How can a veteran like Mike O'Reilly, in position to make a call on a home run, be so easily overruled by crew members who had worse viewpoints?

If instant replay is ever instituted in baseball it will be because of disgraceful calls like this one.

Who is Mike O'Reilly?

There is only one angle for that call, and O'Reilly had it. I can't see changing that one unless it was obviously wrong, and it obviously wasn't.

Reilly got the call right the first time. He called for the huddle, so I don't know what his problem with the call was. "Balking" Bob Davidson was the one who told Reilly the ball was foul. Randolph only came out after the call of home run was changed.

In other words, the end result the call was blown.

Happens every day....even at that level.....

Wow, what an endorsement of mediocrity.

And you would have got it right..........because....................

When you reach their level then come see us.....Geez

Mike Reilly is probably one of the most respected umpires in MLB, lighten up, so they arent perfect...

I believe he's kinfolk to Bill.:)

Its not an endorsement of mediocrity...its a statement...blown calls happen... we all try to eliminate them, but all we really ever do is minimize them....

and you can be sure if THEY get one wrong occasionally...someone like you does it even more often...

ESPN - Davidson Admits Mistake


Exerpt from article:

Okay you armchair umpires, the guy admits the mistake. So you can all wind down the complaints. Just remember, you guys screw up 100 times worse than the MLB guys do!

If you watch the replay, you can see Fletcher and Marquez say foul as well. It was a crew mistake, not just Davidson.

Yep, they booted it, at least they're man enough to admit they booted it. Can you say the same after you boot one? I screwed up a play while working with on of my evaluator's. I gave him the only answer he wanted...." I expletive it up!!" I knew it immediatly, he knew it, he was happy with my answer, I've moved up, we went on, and my assignments increased.

Just out of curiosity (baseball is not my sport), what's the rule here?

It looked to me as though the ball first struck the wall and then the pole. As soon as it hits the wall in fair territory, it's fair, right? Does it then matter whether it goes out of play fair or foul? They seemed to be making a big deal on tv of the fact that it hit the pole after it hit the wall. What consequence does that have?

I assume that if a batted ball hits the top of the wall in foul territory and then hits the pole (if that is possible) it would be a foul ball. True?

Might be case for replay
 

This is probably the only type of play where I can see replay being useful for MLB. Pete I know you've said that for a couple of years.

But he had the call right, my son and I were watching the game and he should have went with his instinct. He let the F7 put the doubt in his mind.

But if PU didn't know he should have said nothing.

In the long run didn't affect the game but could have been huge!

Sure everyone misses a call, but he had this one right and let someone talk him out of it.

If he had gone with fair ball no one from the Yankees was complaining.

As far as mangers, Randolph showed a lot of class in this situation.

Thanks
DAvid

As a Met fan, that was Willie being his own apathetic self.

I didn't see the game, but heard it on the radio, and I was getting annoyed with how many times the Mets announcers (who I love) were going on and on about the missed call, even as the Mets were winning 5-2. From what I heard them say about Mike Reilly going to the crew "immediately", it sounded like he lost it, knew he had to make a call, no matter what it was, and dealt with it with his crew. Obviously this is all 100% speculation, but was the ball that close to being foul? And did Reilly really go "immediately" to the crew for help, or did Jeter/Damon really have to talk him into it?

Willie was barking a lot from the dugout. One of the coaches got tossed.

Yes the ball was that close. It grazed the "foul" side of the foul pole a couple of inches above the fence.

Jeter made on very quick remark to Reilly and Reilly then immediately signaled the other crew members for a conference.

From what I heard/read, Manuel got tossed after he kept jawing at Davidson after Bob told Willie to "Shut up", according to the ESPN mic.

Did anyone catch the ESPN guys' comments during tonight's Cubs @ Astros game? They showed the replay of the fair/foul ball several times and said that the umpires' final call of foul WAS, in fact, the correct one. Something about how the ball hit in foul territory first.

:confused:

Weird.

They also said that the HR was a "real" HR because it hit the yellow line.

MLB has a universal ground rule that the yellow line is in play.

Didn't see the Yanks game... but wanted to throw in a point I heard from my friend.

The foul pole at Yankee Stadium is about a foot behind the wall, if not more. Then of course, on the wall, there is a vertical white line that extends to the ground.

I guess in one of the camera angles, because of the foot gap between line and wall, it appeared as though the pole and the line were not actually on the same vertical plane. Of course, most reasonably minded people could figure out why this could happen, but lets not forget our old friends Joe Morgan and Jon Miller.

They went on and on about how all these years the foul pole has been in the wrong place... probably until the producer told them to shut up.

Classic Morgan....

i think the problem here is two fold, first reilly "thought" the ball was a homerun, second, davidson "knew" the ball was foul. now we know those two statements were wrong but in reilly's defence he went with the guy who "knew" what happened.

steve

from my MiLB buddy


add 2 more umpires to each crew....
34 new big league umpires...
27 plate jobs per year instead of 40 per guy...
the old guys could hang on even longer....
less chance of injury ..
better look at these nutcutters...
cost only about 150K per team (hell raise beer 50 cents)
more AAA fill-ins would get a chance...

I didn't see it that way at all. He was actually showing why he was a good player, he knew the call was made, he knew there was nothing going to change it.

He made his point very clearly, he talked with both umpires involved and he returned to the dugout and kept barking even more after he saw the replay and knew it was a blown call.

I consider that a class act compared to a Pinella who who have acted a fool.

Thanks
David
.

Does this mean 6 per game, with umpires down the LF and RF lines?

I'd be more in favor of an idea some have thrown around, with a 5th added to each crew who rotates to the booth as the "Replay Umpire" the day after a plate job.

yup...6 per game....that'll work...if somebody would pay for it

I think sometimes this is where "asking for help" isn't always better and doesn't always help you "get it right" if Davidson didn't know for sure...they should've stuck with the call on the field...he obviously didn't know for sure because he got it wrong and U3 was probably 200 feet closer to the call with no other responsibilities.

very good point
 

Exactly. I've watched too many games lately and its really gotten bad in HS ball where coaches almost expect you to ask for help.

In a recent playoff game, coach wanted me to ask for help on a pulled foot and I'm in U1. On top of that throw is high and pulls F3 toward RF which means PU couldn't see it anyway because he pulls his foot away from him.

As I move to U2 coach goes to PU and asks him to make a call. PU and I had talked about it before the game so he tells coach its my call and ends discussion, but how many times do we see umpires getting together and then making the "wrong" call.

Sure it might be a tough call, but in the Mets game, Reilly had it right to start with.

I can't remember who says it best, but sometimes we just have to umpire!

Thanks
David

I've told a coach before when he's asked me to ask for help at the FED level on a swipe tag play at the plate...coach, I'm 100% sure I got the call right...my partner is 100 feet away from me watching other stuff, there's no way he had a better angle than me. I'm not asking him. (we were only 2 man)...I agree with you...sometimes we just have to umpire. we know our mechanics, many coaches do not. if your partner does not have the angle, or a better angle, don't ask...it's just going to cause more problems...

that being said, there is a time where asking for help can be a good thing.

Yes, there is a right time to ask. Pulled foot is one of the easy ones if he's pulled into the infield so the PU can see it. I had one last year where my partner's position did not allow him to see a catcher drop the ball and immediatly pick it back up. So when he asked the catcher to show him the ball, the catcher showed it and he call the runner out. Right call from his angle, but I had seen the loose ball and so had the third base coach. He asked me, and I told him it was the PU's call. He then asked the PU to talk me. I told him what I saw and he reversed his call. We got the right call because he wasn't afraid to look bad by asking or having to reverse his call. Sometimes it is just plain wrong to ask, though, as mentioned in the previous post.

he should've been unsure...his guy was 200' feet closer to the call than he was.

Yankee Stadium is very difficult for base umpires on balls down the foul line by the pole. The way the stadium is built the background can be very difficult for a BU down the line. PU often has a better view and does not lose the ball in flight.