Adult League in Turmoil
 

This is a continuation of the "Was it too much?" thread. I would like to get some suggestions on what the league I play in could do to make working games for them more appealing to umpires.

In the case of this league, it's the 5% or so that ruin things for everyone else involved. The sad thing is that there is talent in the league. A lot of players have semi-pro experience, but choose to play in the rec league for various reasons.

The league itself is in a bit of turmoil this year. We are struggling to get diamonds booked because the players terrorized one of the umpires who happens to also be responsible for booking diamonds. We have had umpires fear for their safety doing this league, and one even walked off the field to avoid harm. The player abuse of umpires has been a constant trend over the years.

The league goes 9 innings which often means 4 hours. I enjoy it, but the umpires are fed up with working games that drag on forever, plus sometimes driving 25 minutes without compensation, just to make $40 before getting up for work the next morning.

What would you guys recommend the league do to retain more umpires? There has been talk about a pay raise, going to 7 inning games, further disciplinary action with ejected participants, and even using wooden bats to speed things up. Comments would be appreciated.

How about letting them provide their own f@#*ing umpires for a season or two.

Seems like a recurring theme around here.

My guess is that "everyone" knows who the 5% are. Kick them out of the league. (iow, put in place a suspension system for in-game and post-game problems).

4 hours is way too long for an amateur 9-inning game. Enforce the pace-of-game rules, and / or make week-night games 7 innings and weekend games 9-innings.

The "commissioner" (or board, or league president) needs to be involved and not take the side of the players / managers.

[QUOTE]I do not know what laws you have in Canada but here in the states if someone is threating someone or an umpire has to avoid harm then you have the individuals arrested.

In addition these individuals are permantly banned from the league.

There needs to be strict enforcement from EVERYONE involved about player activity and it should be severe.

In addtion you need to put Time llimits on these adult mens leagues games otherwise as yousaid they will last forever.

Pete Booth

This would do the trick. Notice that Bob's first suggestion is not preemptive suspension, but rather the institution of suspension policies. These should be progressive, for instance: 2nd ejection, miss 2 games; 3rd ejection, miss 5 games; 4th ejection in a season, banned from the league.

You're just too nice a guy, Mike. :)

We've had similar problems over the years in basketball with a mens rec league and in football with a mens flag league. We told them both that the only way that they would get officials is (1) first ejection is one game, and (2) second ejection is the rest of the year. If contact was involved in either ejection, it would immediately be a lifetime ban. We also told them that there was zero tolerance, with no recourse for any ejection. Iow, a player got one kick at the can.

If they truly want to clean their leagues up, they'll agree. If they don't, let 'em do their own damn games.

Don't know much about exchange rates or where in Canada you live... but I believe it is about 1:1 these days. 40 bucks for 9 innings?

I know each area is different, but this seems remarkably low. Perhaps an increase in pay along with these suspension guidelines will get you some umpires.

The adult leagues I work in CT are extremely respectful. One time I missed a pitch pretty bad, rookie year, I'm an 18 year old kid, they could have lit a fire under my ***. Only thing I heard from the dugout was, "Ok, it's hot back there, don't worry about it batter"

I'll ask around and see what they did in order to get them that way.

The Canadian dollar is strong but not that strong. $40 for a nine inning game!! That's ridiculous.
Last year we got $75 around here and that's probably 5 or 10 too low.

I agree with all the above posters as well, change the culture of the league quickly with fast and fair ejections, suspensions and bannings. Pay a fair game fee and find a way to speed up the games and you'll prosper with better players, better competition and plenty of umpires.

We had an issue with a regional (Non-MSBL) men's league a while back. Went from fairly mellow (At least as much as large group of over age adolescents will ever be) to a real PITA.

The four umpire associations got together and began sharing all ejection/incident information, then wrote a very strongly worded letter to the league and each manager outlining the problems and advising that a zero tolerance policy would immediately be put into effect.

Short story - no changes. So we took the path of "you want you get". Each ejection report was e-mailed out every day to the assignors. They added the next scheduled game information and forwarded it out to the group. If the player showed up to play he (Duh) and the manager were both ejected, game forfeited and the crew left.

Two weeks later the trouble makers were forced out by peer pressure and the league has been for the most part no problem. The BOD went further the next year - 2 game suspension 1st ejection, 5 for second & balance of season for 3rd.

I played in our local MSBL for about eight years and can't recall any real troublemakers or problems. The expectations for conduct were laid out up front and known to all participants.

It also helped that the umpires were generally well-trained, experienced and had great game management skills.

Now that I'm not playing in the league, I umpire in it from time-to-time and haven't had any problems.

Due to time constraints and scheduling, I'm now playing in a men's fastpitch softball league. The league is pretty mellow, but there is one team with a couple of noted hotheads.

Last year that team was involved in a bench clearing incident, the first thing like that I've ever seen in that league. It got pretty ugly.

The following week, the league commissioner got all teams together before the games and read them the riot act. Those involved in the bench-clearing incident received two week suspensions.

Haven't seen another problem since.

A few seasons ago, a pitcher in the local MSBL league was ejected for histrionics on the mound over balls and strikes. He proceeded to get in the face of the umpire, and in the process, made contact with the umpire. The BOD expelled him from the league immediately. There have been very few ejections since.

You need a commissioner with a set of b@lls who is willing to back the officials and suspend/expell the trouble makers as required.

That's a charitable reading. I guess I agree that adults should know better. As Twain said, if you make the same mistake more than once, it's a bad habit. ;)

I used to umpire here in Tx for the mexican league, same thing here 9 inns, $40. No control of the players and coaches, the league finally agreed to $50 but still no time limit. Some umpires kept getting threating and got fed up with it. The good umpires finally had enough and left, now the league has to deal with inexperience umpires that dont have a clue about baseball.

The Utah MSBL pays fifty per game with a no new inning after three hours time limit. It works out pretty well and there is not trouble finding umpires.

Here in Ottawa, Canada men's league pays $45 for plate and $35 for bases. Games are 7 innings but the time limit is kinda messed up, the rules state that it is 2 hours and 15 minutes but is shortend to 2 hours for most games.

Rule was set when weekday game times were at 6 and 8:30 but now they are 6:15 and 8:30 with lights going out at 11pm in the city. So in order to keep things on time the rule has unoffically changed to no new inning after 8:15 for the early game and 10:45 for the late game.

We have had a couple of problem in the past but the league has really cut down on that in the last couple of years. I think it was more from some umpires putting up with too much, thus things got out of hand.

Alot of problems in men's leagues start from the fact there is no real manager and all the players pay the same, therefore all feel they should get equal say.

In the five years in the league I think I may have tossed one manager, but 30-40 players (each year I get a game with 4-5 ejections).

I don't work leagues where they want to pay the base umpire less than the plate umpire.

Me either- unless they want me to be the plate umpire! :D

Seriously, I hate that practice. Both umpires have the same expense in getting to the field, equipment (okay, so the base umpire just doesn't happen to be wearing his at the moment), training, registration, etc.

Both have equal- if not identical- responsibilities during the game and an equal expectation that their duties are carried out correctly. And, depending on how the game plays out, the base umpire will be hustling and running and exerting just as much effort as the plate man- if not more.

No leagues I'm aware of in my area have this "split" pay scale- and I'm happy with that!

Bret, Rich

They do that because we have a few guys who only do bases. We need these guys to pick up games during the summer months as others take holidays. I figure about 75% of the games I do in this league, I am behind the plate.

I agree with RichMSN. I would never work games in which base umpires received less than plate umpires. Many times, the BU has the majority of the close and key plays. Overall, his training, expenses and responsibilities are no less that the PU.

What if the plate ump goes down? What then happens with the "base only" umpires?

There is no justification for different pay for the two positions and there is no justification for a base only umpire. If you're incapable of doing the whole job, you're incapable of doing the job.

Well, I would be one less umpire they had because of that practice. I refuse to work 100% plates and I refuse to make less than someone else working the game, so I'd be out.

[QUOTE]I agree with Rich and yourself about different pay 100% however I disagree with your statement You make a "name" for yourself in doing the dish Also, in today's 2 person mechanics the PU does have MORE responsibility than the BU.

The PU has to

1. Call the Pitch (which you have to be focused)
2. Fair / Foul if the ball is hit
3. If the ball is hit in the infield possible 45 ft. lane violation
4. Be ready if partner is out of position to aid in the swipe tag pulled foot at first base
5. For the most part all Catch / No catch balls with no-one on base
6. With partner in "B" / "C" Catch / No catch for balls outside the "V"
7. The FIRST Touch of third and tag-up of runner on third


Those are not all but my point was that the PU in a 2 person system has way more responsibilities than the BU.

In summary: I agree with Rich. No differential in pay but on the flip-side as Rich mentioned I am not doing 90 - 100% plates either.

I believe it was TEE who said an umpire makes his "bread / butter" when doing the dish.

Pete Booth

[QUOTE=PeteBooth]Pete:

You are confusing "duties" or "tasks" with responsiblity. The responsibility entrusted to the BU is no less than that entrusted to the PU.

In the minor leagues, as I've been told by a few AAA umpires, you first move up based on your mechanics. Grass work is weighted heavily and your strike zone isn't commented on much at first. If you can't get your base work down, you are not likely to last to get to the point where your plate work will make a difference.

I never underestimate base work. I believe it was Jim Evans who said, "the grass is where the snakes live."

In a two man crew, the umpires are partners.

A lot of players have semi-pro experience, but choose to play in the rec league for various reasons.

What's the difference between 'semi-pro' and 'rec'?

Bob

move to wood bats, enforce the speed up rules, have your association develop stringent ejection policies in their service agreement or you're not working their games...period. Tell the real morons to go play beer league softball where they belong.