Contact at Plate - FED

[bwbuddy]

(FED) What guidelines should be used when calling a runner out at home for making contact with the catcher? When should contact be considered incidental? What if the catcher was up the line 2 feet without possession of the ball? What if he drops the ball? Should contact significant enough to knock the catcher over always be called an out even if, in the umpire's judgement, the contact was accidental or unintentional?

I've seen this called so many different ways - obviously, parents and coaches' perceptions of the way it should be called is always different based on whether our team is on offense or defense.

[etn_ump]

Originally Posted by bwbuddy

(FED) What guidelines should be used when calling a runner out at home for making contact with the catcher? When should contact be considered incidental? What if the catcher was up the line 2 feet without possession of the ball? What if he drops the ball? Should contact significant enough to knock the catcher over always be called an out even if, in the umpire's judgement, the contact was accidental or unintentional?

I've seen this called so many different ways - obviously, parents and coaches' perceptions of the way it should be called is always different based on whether our team is on offense or defense.

Guidelines? I suggest following the FED rulebook.

Contact should be considered incidental when it is.

Catcher up the line without possession? Obstruction.

Drops ball? Doesn't matter, obstruction if he was us the line without the ball.

Catcher being knocked over? Sometimes you have trainwrecks. There is contact in baseball.

Basically, sometimes you have to umpire.

[mbyron]

The reference to "our team" suggests that bwbuddy is not an umpire. His question suggests that he's not familiar with the rules.

bwbuddy: the answer to your question is that by rule, contact anywhere is incidental until it is obstruction, interference, or malicious contact.

To put it another way: there are no guidelines for when contact is incidental, since that's the default. The guidelines are for INT, OBS, MC, etc. If you get a rule book, you will find definitions of all of those terms (see rule 2). The case book will give you rough guidelines.

If you have a specific play in mind, we can offer suggestions about how we might rule, but judging contact is very often a "had to be there" situation.

I think that's what etn was getting at.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by bwbuddy

(FED) What guidelines should be used when calling a runner out at home for making contact with the catcher? When should contact be considered incidental? What if the catcher was up the line 2 feet without possession of the ball? What if he drops the ball? Should contact significant enough to knock the catcher over always be called an out even if, in the umpire's judgement, the contact was accidental or unintentional?

I've seen this called so many different ways - obviously, parents and coaches' perceptions of the way it should be called is always different based on whether our team is on offense or defense.

In a perfect world, the runner should be heading for the base/plate and the fielder should not be in the "line of fire" unless he has possession of the ball. That said, it rarely happens that way!

Runners playing under FED rules need to always try to get to the base/plate and not the fielder. That right there is the most important factor in how I judge malicious contact. If F2 is near the line without the ball and R3 leaves his line to the plate and purposely drills F2, that is malicious. If F2 is in the line to the plate without the ball, he is putting himself in harm's way and that is a "had to be there". Now if F2 has the ball and drops it, you will probably have a "train wreck" (both players are doing what they are supposed to be doing). The last thing to compound the whole matter is that "the force of the collision should not be used to judge if the contact is malicious" (FED quote). It really is up to the umpire's judgment.

As Umpires, we have a lot of judgment during these plays before we can apply the rules of contact, obstruction and interference. I've had collisions that resulted in cuts, bruises and even a fractured pelvis (and these were train wrecks)!

Now, Moms & Dads see it as some kid just bowled over their son so you will never win with them. As a player (which is what I think you are), you just have to do your best to get to the base/plate in a legal way. At the High School level, you don't want to purposely take out a player as you will be ejected on the spot. It doesn't help your team when that happens either.

Hope this helps.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Now if F2 has the ball and drops it, you will probably have a "train wreck" (both players are doing what they are supposed to be doing).

In FED, if F2 has the ball, the runner must make a legal attempt (including a slide) to avoid the fielder. The runner's choices are "get down, go around, or give up".

[Emperor Ump]

Originally Posted by mbyron

contact anywhere is incidental until it is obstruction, interference, or malicious contact.

I love this phrase simple and to the point. I've never heard it put this way before. I'm definately putting this one in my posket for future use. Thanks mbyron

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Emperor Ump

I love this phrase simple and to the point. I've never heard it put this way before. I'm definately putting this one in my posket for future use. Thanks mbyron

You're welcome. Didn't Forrest's mama say, "Simple is as simple does"?

[Forest Ump]

Originally Posted by mbyron

You're welcome. Didn't Forrest's mama say, "Simple is as simple does"?

Yep

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by Emperor Ump

I love this phrase simple and to the point. I've never heard it put this way before. I'm definately putting this one in my posket for future use. Thanks mbyron

What about illegal contact? Don't forget that one.........

Illegal contact is not malicious contact.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

In FED, if F2 has the ball, the runner must make a legal attempt (including a slide) to avoid the fielder. The runner's choices are "get down, go around, or give up".

Ahh, point taken. I was referring to a catch, drop oh $hit type of play that gets everyone screaming for blood!