POTEOD #1

[Carl Childress]

Rich Fronheiser suggested I post a play of the day. But the eUmpire site will start having short POTD's very soon. So here, I will do the POTEOD, i.e., Play of the every other day.

Here's number one:

B1's tremendous smash is headed for the fence. The right-fielder leaps high, gloves the ball, and falls to the ground. As he hits square on his back, the ball pops out of his glove, into the air, finally landing on the fielder's chest. An alert center fielder grabs the ball and fires to third, but the throw goes dead.

At the time of the throw B1 had not yet touched second.

What's your call?

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Papa C
Editor, eUmpire

[Jim Porter]

Hmmmm, interesting play.

Part of me wants to say that since the ball never touched the ground, its status has not yet been determined. Conceivably, this could be considered the same as if the ball deflected off of one fielder and then is legally caught by another fielder.

However, another part of me is toying with the Pro concept of voluntary release. Since the fielder gloved the ball, then hit the fence and fell, and this fall caused him to let it go, voluntary release has not been established. in fact we had involuntary release which can never be a catch. The other fielder would almost have to take the ball out of the first fielder's glove for voluntary release to occur.

The question as I see it:

If a ball is gloved (caught), but a catch (voluntary release) is not yet established (as in the posted situation), is the only thing that could make this a legal catch voluntary release? Not even another fielder could legally catch this ball if it is not voluntarily released even if it doesn't touch the ground?

This is not the same as if the ball popped out of a fielder's glove and is legally caught by another fielder. In that situation the ball was never gloved so voluntary release is not an issue until it is gloved.

I'd have to award B1 third base, I think. But very little argument could convince me this is a legal catch by the center fielder.

What do y'all think?

Sincerely,
Jim Porter

[This message has been edited by Jim Porter (edited August 22, 2000).]

[Warren Willson]

Ok, I'll play the sucker:

B1 is "OUT!" caught by the second fielder who gained possession of the ball, which was still legally "in flight" (since it had not yet touched the ground or any object other than another fielder). This second fielder held the ball long enough to demonstrate control, and then voluntarily released the ball in the act of throwing it (even if it did go out of play).

My consolation is that Jim Porter really wanted to make this call, too, but piked out (I mean that in the nicest possible way, Jim ) - probably at the thought that Carl usually has something obscure hidden "up his sleeve" on such apparently simple P'sOTD.

Cheers,

Warren Willson

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Member and Co-Moderator, UT

[Stan W]

After reading the question, I was sure my call would be "out!" agreeing in principle with Warren.......course there is enough wiggle room to make this interesting,...

[blanco7]

I would have to agree with Jim. B1 gets third. ther was no voluntary realease hence no catch.

The first play was the attempt to catch the ball the second the throw that went into DBT. B1 has not reached second hence 3b.

Now we wait for Papa C's answer.

[Bob]

We have a catch. B1 is out. "Go sit down, boy, they robbed you bigtime."

No runners were mentioned, so I'm assuming none.

So all we have is a catch by F8 with an assist from F9?

Bob

[Thane Yennie]

I have to agree with Jim. There is no catch, and the fact that the ball didn't touch the ground has no bearing IMO. The fielder lying on the ground should be treated just like an umpire that gets hit with a ball (provided it wasn't umpire interference) Hey man F9 is part of the field in this case. F8's throw goes wild BR has not reached second, ball is dead Br goes to 3rd.

[SamNVa]

Ok, I'll take a shot.

I'm siding with Warren here. The BR is out because the ball never touched anything other than a fielder. The rules don't say anything about a fielder becoming part of the field when he falls down, only that he becomes part of DBT when he falls down there. Since he's still in LBT, he's still a fielder (whether he's alive or not ) so I have a catch and putout by F8 with an assist to F9.

[Mark Land]

Out is my initial reaction. We must, I think, look at two parts of the definition of "catch." The two parts, with my (a) and (b) are:

(a) "It is not a catch, however, if simultaneously or immediately following his contact with the ball, he collides with a player, or with a wall, or if he falls down, and as a result of such collision or falling, drops the ball."

Under (a), the fielder "dropped" the ball (or did he since in never touched the ground). The rule does not say that "he drops the ball and it hits the ground." This makes it sound like not a catch.

(b) “A catch is legal if the ball is finally held by any fielder, even though juggled, or held by another fielder before it touches the ground.”

Under (b), it is still a catch if "juggled." While I would not call this a juggle, it seems to suggest this is a catch.

So, I guess we have to decide whether this is really a “drop” or a “juggle.” Despite the delay, I think it is more a “juggle.” I stick with out.


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Take care,
Mark