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canadaump6 Sat Feb 16, 2008 06:41pm

2 Questions for FED umpires
 
I've seen a lot of talk on here about FED umpiring qualification tests and am guessing this is the time of year when you have to write qualification exams. I am curious to know if your association pays the cost of your examination/clinic. Around here, it costs $45 to write our level 3 qualification exam, and that money comes out of our own pockets. I have talked to my umpire in chief about asking the league to pay our fees. He says that every year he asks them about reimbursing us, but they never email him back. What do you think should be the next step? How do they handle the costs for FED qualifications?

My other question is how much money FED pays per game. Around here for doing 16-18 year old All Star, we make $38 for doing plate and $30 for doing bases (either 7 or 9 inning games depending on if it's AA or AAA). I would guess it is about the same level of ball as high school varsity. How do we compare to high school umpiring associations in terms of salaries and exam fees?

bossman72 Sat Feb 16, 2008 06:55pm

FED (properly known as NFHS - National Federation of State High School Associations) makes up the rules for 95% of our state high schools. The individual states choose to adopt FED rules or not.

In regards to FED tests, FED issues the tests nationwide, but each state administers the test the way they want to. There is no cost for the exam specifically (although we have to pay dues to our state annually for each sport we work - $30 per sport).

In regards to FED paying per game - the FED does not pay anybody. Usually (at least in my state), umpires are considered independent contractors and are not employees of the state, or FED for that matter. You are paid by the schools you do games for (or the schools pay your local association, and the association then pays you).

It depends on the area how much you make per game. In my area, we get $60 for V, $50 for JV, and $45 for sub-JV. My state only requires you to pass one umpiring exam at the beginning of your career and you do not have to re-test at all, assuming you are active every year after.

MadCityRef Sun Feb 17, 2008 02:04am

Around here, it costs $45 to write our level 3 qualification exam, and that money comes out of our own pockets.

I am confused. Please explain more about your process.

canadaump6 Sun Feb 17, 2008 03:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadCityRef
Around here, it costs $45 to write our level 3 qualification exam, and that money comes out of our own pockets.

I am confused. Please explain more about your process.

Baseball Ontario requires $45 to write an exam to either become or remain a level 3 umpire. If you don't write the exam or fail it, you drop down to level 2. In our association, the umpires themselves have to pay the $45, rather than the association reimbursing us.

RPatrino Sun Feb 17, 2008 03:53pm

I think he means to "take" the exam. "Writing" the exam must be a Canadian term.

JRutledge Sun Feb 17, 2008 03:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPatrino
I think he means to "take" the exam. "Writing" the exam must be a Canadian term.

No actually that is a term I have heard many officials in the States use. I am not sure why, it does not make a lot of sense.

Peace

MadCityRef Sun Feb 17, 2008 04:20pm

$45 is outrageous whether taking or writing it.
(I thought the umps paid someone to write a fresh exam each year. Where can I get that job?)

Has your association told Baseball Ontario that this is a burdensome expense? And if so, what was the response?

The association could meet with the schools to explain how the cost hurts your numbers. I'd be discouraged starting out and having to fork over that amount of cash just to take a test.

And your association could be strong to suggest to the schools that your group will not take the test (probably in 09, but 08 is better), and as part of the protest, you refuse to work their games until the situation is resolved.
The schools want the games to be played with good umpires. Put the onus on B.O.

Here the state associations work for the school members; what they want, they get. And sadly, officiating is not their priority.

I'd get info from state and provincial governing bodies to present to B.O. Show them they are out of step.

Besides the exam, what else do you get for your money?

ManInBlue Sun Feb 17, 2008 05:25pm

Sounds like he's asking a question and leaving it at that. "They haven't emailed him back." What's wrong with a little follow through? If he hasn't heard in a week, ask again. Still nothing, ask again (or start calling rather than emailing). If he truly wants this resolved, he should be more proactive in getting an answer. Call, email, etc until you reach the person that can help you - and get an answer, set a meeting, something.

He's not completing the task. He's just doing enough to say "I asked" He needs to keep the ball rolling, not just throw it out there.

Tim C Sun Feb 17, 2008 05:55pm

Huh,
 
Umpires in our association pay $85 for fees.

$35 of that goes to the OSAA and is for a Rules Book a Case Book and the right to take a test.

Regards,

Rich Sun Feb 17, 2008 06:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadCityRef
$45 is outrageous whether taking or writing it.
(I thought the umps paid someone to write a fresh exam each year. Where can I get that job?)

Has your association told Baseball Ontario that this is a burdensome expense? And if so, what was the response?

The association could meet with the schools to explain how the cost hurts your numbers. I'd be discouraged starting out and having to fork over that amount of cash just to take a test.

And your association could be strong to suggest to the schools that your group will not take the test (probably in 09, but 08 is better), and as part of the protest, you refuse to work their games until the situation is resolved.
The schools want the games to be played with good umpires. Put the onus on B.O.

Here the state associations work for the school members; what they want, they get. And sadly, officiating is not their priority.

I'd get info from state and provincial governing bodies to present to B.O. Show them they are out of step.

Besides the exam, what else do you get for your money?

What do you think the WIAA gets for a one-sport official as a registration fee?

They get good umpires when the group I hang with is working. Good umpires figure out ways to get to that point without people holding their hands throughout the process.

JRutledge Sun Feb 17, 2008 06:16pm

I do not see the big deal.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C
Umpires in our association pay $85 for fees.

$35 of that goes to the OSAA and is for a Rules Book a Case Book and the right to take a test.

Regards,

Associations cost varies around here. Depending on the sport you can pay as little as $25 and as high as $60 to be a member in an association for one particular sport (price varies if you belong to multiple divisions in that association).

And I believe the renewal fee for the IHSA is $35 every year (I believe $15 for each additional sport). That just means you maintain your license if you pass the NF test every year and attend camps within a certain time frame to keep your license.

Peace

DG Sun Feb 17, 2008 06:38pm

Fees
 
In NC it is $51 to the NCHSAA. For that you get insurance (liabilty and accident), rule book, case book, and every couple years an umpire manual (which I toss). Sitting for an exam annually is expected by all. To be a playoff umpire you must reach a high score. If you don't take it, technically you are not qualified to umpire.

I expect the insurance covers you for all sports so the fee for multiple sports would be less, but I don't know for sure since I only work baseball.

It does not cost anything to belong to the association, but there is a booking fee to the booking agent.

etn_ump Sun Feb 17, 2008 07:28pm

Tennessee is very similar. We pay $55.00 to the TSSAA and $45.00 for our local association dues. Liability, accident and loss of game fee insurance is included in this State fee. We also get the same things DG mentioned from Fed.

Game fees here are $65.00 for Varsity and $55.00 for JV and Middle School.

Lawrence.Dorsey Sun Feb 17, 2008 07:52pm

DG,

I only work baseball also but the the insurance fee ($21) is only paid once during a registration year. The insurance only covers you for NCHSAA games (any sport). We also pay $50 to our booking agent. I know another association who get paid by their assignor (assignor gets the check from the school then pays umpires). That assignor takes 1 game check per sport as a booking fee. That equals $60 for a varsity baseball umpire.

Lawrence

dash_riprock Sun Feb 17, 2008 08:00pm

Long Island, NY: $80 dues, no assigning fee, insurance is included in the $80.
Game fees: V - $106, JV - $87, JH - $69.50 Work alone (rare) fee X 1.5

DG Sun Feb 17, 2008 08:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawrence.Dorsey
DG,

I only work baseball also but the the insurance fee ($21) is only paid once during a registration year. The insurance only covers you for NCHSAA games (any sport). We also pay $50 to our booking agent. I know another association who get paid by their assignor (assignor gets the check from the school then pays umpires). That assignor takes 1 game check per sport as a booking fee. That equals $60 for a varsity baseball umpire.

Lawrence

I was once told it covered me all year, even for non-NCHSAA events. However, it is accident insurance and I carry separate accident/liability insurance for officials that surely covers me for any game.

fitump56 Sun Feb 17, 2008 08:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by canadaump6
I've seen a lot of talk on here about FED umpiring qualification tests and am guessing this is the time of year when you have to write qualification exams. I am curious to know if your association pays the cost of your examination/clinic.

Not any I know becuz it goes to the State High School ASSn.

Quote:

Around here, it costs $45 to write our level 3 qualification exam, and that money comes out of our own pockets. I have talked to my umpire in chief about asking the league to pay our fees. He says that every year he asks them about reimbursing us, but they never email him back. What do you think should be the next step?
ASSuming he's not getting a kickback, forget it.

Quote:

My other question is how much money FED pays per game. Around here for doing 16-18 year old All Star, we make $38 for doing plate and $30 for doing bases (either 7 or 9 inning games depending on if it's AA or AAA). I would guess it is about the same level of ball as high school varsity. How do we compare to high school umpiring associations in terms of salaries and exam fees?
More like $55 - $65 regardless of plate-base but the travel distances in Atlanta can be absurd. Then pay is at the end of season. :rolleyes:

Which is why I refuse to do HS FED ball.

ptmac Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:28pm

Perhaps a fuller explanation of the situation in Ontario and a quick overview of the various levels of umpiring in Canada may be helpful.

In Canada, there are five levels 1 – 5 (with levels 4 & 5 broken down into subgroups). Levels 1 & 2 are primarily for beginning and junior level umpires. Starting with 2 years in Level 1 and 3 years in level 2, an individual qualifies for Level 3. These levels are operated and managed on a provincial level (think in terms of state/regional). Level 3 umpires can do any level of baseball up to Provincial Championships. Level 4 umpires in Canada (there were a total of 148 in 2006), are nationally certified to umpire in National Championships. They also provide the backbone of umpire improvement in the country. Many if not most have attended either Harry or Jim's 5 week clinics, and some have been MiLB umpires. Level 5 umpires are internationally certified, and Canada has provided many umpires in International competition including Pan-Am Games, World Junior Championships and Olympic competition (Canada provided one of the four umpires at the Gold Medal Game in Athens and will be represented in the Bejing games this summer.

Ontario recognizes that a majority of Level 3 umpires have been doing so for a number of years, and requiring an annual clinic attendance would be diluting the available clinicians (there are 46 in the province) among other reasons. Local Associations have been encouraged to provide teaching/mentoring of Level 3 umpires on a local basis, and direct contact with clinicians are available. Each year, Level 3 umpires take an exam requiring a 76% mark to maintain their status. Every 3 years (2008 is a clinic year), there is a ‘superclinic’, where a full day including in-class, on-field and plate work is conducted. Umpires are charged $45 each year including superclinic years. Participants are provided with learning materials including workbooks, video materials, DVD’s and plate work recordings.

This fee also includes insurance each year - health as well as liability...

Using ONE game fee at the HS level for certification should not be a big burden on any umpire, and it is deductible from game fees for tax purposes…… Local umpiring and baseball associations are not (at least in Ontario) massively funded and tend to operate on a shoestring basis. In other words, get over it!

Game fees are locally set here and depending on age group, level of play and competency of umpire can be really quite lucrative.

bossman72 Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadCityRef
$45 is outrageous whether taking or writing it.


Mind you that's 45 Canadian dollars.


But while we're at it. My state dues are $30 ($25 if you pay them early). My chapter dues are $50 which is ridiculous. They use most of that to stipend the assignor and other officers, when in actuality, the schools should be paying that money. All the other associations around my area don't pay their board members with the dues except mine. Sheesh.

canadaump6 Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:50am

I wasn't referring to the Superclinic years, as our league reimburses us for those. I am referring to the years where we have to fork over $45 to write an exam.

Quote:

This fee also includes insurance each year - health as well as liability...
This is the first I have heard about the fee including insurance. I found nothing about it on the Baseball Ontario website, but I probably overlooked something again.

Quote:

Using ONE game fee at the HS level for certification should not be a big burden on any umpire, and it is deductible from game fees for tax purposes…… Local umpiring and baseball associations are not (at least in Ontario) massively funded and tend to operate on a shoestring basis. In other words, get over it!
It is not really the money that is the issue, although $45 does cost almost 2 game fees around here. It is the principle of having to pay to serve your association that I strongly dislike. One would think that if they wanted level 3 umpires, they would pay their examination fees every year. Most workplaces pay their employees to take training, not the other way around. From the looks of things, it seems as though others are faced with the same issue.

ptmac Mon Feb 18, 2008 01:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by canadaump6
I wasn't referring to the Superclinic years, as our league reimburses us for those. I am referring to the years where we have to fork over $45 to write an exam..

Think of it this way - You're paying $135 for three years including three exams and one superclinic. I don't understand why your 'league' would reimburse you for this. Other centers reimburse upon completion of a certain number of games umpired....but only if you umpire exclusively for them. I'm not aware of any area in at least Southern Ontario where a L3 umpire would leaguework exclusively for any association

Quote:

Originally Posted by canadaump6
This is the first I have heard about the fee including insurance. I found nothing about it on the Baseball Ontario website, but I probably overlooked something again...

If your association pays the fee, any insurance payments to you for injury etc are taxable. If you pay the fee (not reimbursed), they are non-taxable. This insurance has been part of the certification process for at least 15 years....

Quote:

Originally Posted by canadaump6
It is not really the money that is the issue, although $45 does cost almost 2 game fees around here. It is the principle of having to pay to serve your association that I strongly dislike. One would think that if they wanted level 3 umpires, they would pay their examination fees every year. Most workplaces pay their employees to take training, not the other way around. From the looks of things, it seems as though others are faced with the same issue.

I don't know about you, but I'm not an employee of any association. I umpire for a number of different leagues etc - why would one pay and another not? The real issue is - do you want to be a top quality umpire or not? In the larger scheme of things, an exam/certification/association fee is the least costly thing I do in umpiring - and there's a whole host of things that deserve more of my energy than that.

MadCityRef Mon Feb 18, 2008 02:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossman72
Mind you that's 45 Canadian dollars.

CN dollar is 'bout even to US these days.

tiger49 Mon Feb 18, 2008 08:10pm

Thanks ptmac for speaking up...$45 for an 8 hour course (with lunch included) is a bargin. Same goes for the 3-day Level 4 at about $300. With meals and rooms included.


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