Missed NFHS Test Question

[umpduck11]

Gentlemen,

I missed the following question on the Alabama High School Registration test.
I took the test online, and got my score instantly. Please tell me where I went wrong. The following is the question number, question, correct answer,
and rule reference:

32 The Ball is Immediately Dead When: With the infield-fly rule in effect, an infielder intentionally drops a fair bunt in flight.` False 5-1-1j

I answered true, which according to my test results, was not the correct answer. Here are the relevant rules:

Rule 8-4-1 The batter-runner is out when (c) his fair fly, fair line drive, or fair bunt in flight is intentionally dropped by an infielder with at least first base occupied and before there are two outs. The ball is dead and the runner or runners shall return to their respective bases.

5-1-1 Ball becomes immediately dead when: (j) an infielder intentionally drops a fair fly, fair line drive, or fair bunt in flight with at least first base occupied and with less than two outs.
1. Infield fly rule (2-19)


2-19 Infield Fly
An infield fly is a fair fly (not including a line drive nor attempted bunt)......

What, if anything, am I missing ?

[bobbybanaduck]

the answer should be "true" if #32 instead read, "this question is so poorly worded that we have confused ourselves in our effort to trip you up."

it is likely that they were trying to get you to think that infield fly was called erroneously which should lead to an answer of "false." however, because the ball was intentionally dropped, it is dead. the question stinks and the fed people should, once again, be stoned to death.

[MadCityRef]

What a lousy question. Simply because R1 and R2 are on base, it's "In Effect"? The fair bunt doesn't put the IF "in effect", so the int. drop would be enforced. Thus, true. Yeesh.

Toss it, NFers!!

You get instant corrections in AL? Huh. IHSA online gives you a score, but need to wait for the deadline to pass to get specifics.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

the answer should be "true" if #32 instead read, "this question is so poorly worded that we have confused ourselves in our effort to trip you up."

it is likely that they were trying to get you to think that infield fly was called erroneously which should lead to an answer of "false." however, because the ball was intentionally dropped, it is dead. the question stinks and the fed people should, once again, be stoned to death.

Wow, to death? I gotta ask....if THIS is a death penalty offense, what do you propse we do to women who wait until their $456.98 grocery cart full of Dorritos and Diet Pepsi is rung up BEFORE they begin their search for the checkbook...followed by the search for the pen...followed by the search for the driver's license.

Joe in Texas

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

the answer should be "true" if #32 instead read, "this question is so poorly worded that we have confused ourselves in our effort to trip you up."

it is likely that they were trying to get you to think that infield fly was called erroneously which should lead to an answer of "false." however, because the ball was intentionally dropped, it is dead. the question stinks and the fed people should, once again, be stoned to death.

Bobby, I think Alabama writes their own test. This isn't #32 on the FED test.

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Bobby, I think Alabama writes their own test. This isn't #32 on the FED test.

You may be right, Garth, but I do know that the online test generates a different set of questions each time, and/or rearranges their order.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by umpduck11

You may be right, Garth, but I do know that the online test generates a different set of questions each time, and/or rearranges their order.

My error....go ahead and stone FED.

This is question 57 on the FED online test. It would appear someone tried to be just a bit too cute. False can be supported, but not sensibly.

[ManInBlue]

I too missed this question. I did not understand why it was false. I still don't. But mine is not to reason why, especially when it come to NFHS.

My thought process was this: IFF in affect. Fly ball dropped intentionally, batter is out, ball remains live. However, a bunt (or attempt) is not an IFF - so as stated before the "in affect" doesn't apply any more. So this is simply an intentionally dropped "fly ball." In which case, the ball is dead and batter is out - runners return.

This seems to be the logic pointed out previously in this thread. It's also the logic I see in the rules pointed out in the OP.

Did I miss something? Other than the "correct" answer to this question, I mean.

[BretMan]

This same question got beat to death on the NFHS discussion boards last week. Not that there's anything wrong with that...if they say the answer is false then it deserves to be beat to death!

Check out Case Play 8.4.1.G. It describes this exact scenario and demonstrates that the ball is indeed DEAD.

The only time the ball remains live on an intentional drop with the infield fly rule in effect is when a batted ball is hit that actually meets the definition of an infield fly. A bunt does not, and is treated as any other intentionally dropped ball. Dead ball, batter out, runners return.

Also, note that rule 5-1-1 seems to have been misprinted this year, especially if you compare it to how it read for the past few years. The note at the end of the rule, "1. Infield-fly rule (2-19)", is meaningless as a stand-alone statement.

The infield-fly rule....what about it?

In previous years that note included the phrase, "...with the exception of...(the infield-fly rule)", or words to that effect (it was worded differently in both 2006 and 2007, then mangled in 2008). This year, they dropped the "exception" part of the rule, which makes no sense.

So, anyone that misses this question, then checks a 2008 rule book for clarification should really get confused!

[GarthB]

Lets rephrase the statement thusly "The Ball is Immediately Dead = A

When: With the infield-fly rule in effect= B

an infielder intentionally drops a fair bunt in flight."= C


Thee only justification for an answer of "false" that I can think of is that B is not the exact conditions that must exist for A = C.

It is true that A = C when B exists, but A = C when B is not completely fulfilled, as well. Thus, since B is not really the requirement for A = C, some pinhead who writes the questions that the rules committee suggests decided that only "false" would be the accurate answer.

I don't believe the question is intentionally a trick a question, I think it is a stupid question.

[dash_riprock]

Yes. And I don't think they are smart enough for it to be an intentionally stupid question.

[BretMan]

I think they just have the wrong answer on their answer key.

The noted Case Play is identical to this play (infield fly in effect, ball is bunted and intentionally dropped). The ruling given is dead ball.

That also matches the OBR interpretation.

I like to break stuff down and get into A=B=C logic, but sometimes the solution to a problem is the simplest explanation. The simplest explanation is that the answer key is wrong.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by BretMan

I think they just have the wrong answer on their answer key.

(edit(

I like to break stuff down and get into A=B=C logic, but sometimes the solution to the problem is the simplest explanation. The simplest explanation is that the answer key is wrong.

I've gone through this with Elliot before and the key has always been what they wanted for a variety of strange reasons. I have an inquiry in about this one. I'll let you know what I hear.

Originally Posted by GarthB

Bobby, I think Alabama writes their own test. This isn't #32 on the FED test.

It's number 57 on the FED test. It was discussed ad nauseum on the NFHS discussion forum. Someone asked the same question. What it came right down to was that a) the question was poorly written, b) nobody seems to know what the real intention of the question is and c) how the words "in effect" are to be interpreted.

Our thread on that site broke down every part of the question. When you come right down to it, the issue of IFR really has no menaing to the question except to say that it means that there are runners on first and second or bases loaded, and there are less than two outs. Everything else written indicates the question is TRUE. Even if IFR was called by error players on both sides should be aware of the fact that an intentionally dropped BUNT in this situation is an immediate dead ball. The correct answer is in fact TRUE.

The words "IN EFFECT" should not imply that the IFR has been called, only that the situation is such that the IFR could be called if there was in fact an infield fly. I'm sure that cooler heads will prevail and the answer key eventually will be adjusted to allow either question to be correct, or they just throw out the question entirely.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by SAump

Perhaps, what was meant by intentionally drops a fair bunt in flight in this scenario was a ball "intentionally not caught in the air" and allowed to drop to the ground untouched.

Perhaps.

But that would conflict with how the term "intentionally dropped" is used in both the rule book or case play. There, an "intentionally dropped" ball is one that the fielder must actually touch, then purposely drop or guide to the ground in effort to decieve the runners and gain "unearned" outs.

Going off subject a bit...

How many "intentionally dropped" balls have you ever had to call? Me, I can recall only one in my career.

Kind of odd that there is much ado about possibly one of the least invoked rules in the game.