Roger Clemens

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Ohio State Bowl History

Ohio State beat teams like Oklahoma State, Kansas State and Texas A&M. OSU played South Carolina two years in a row and that was pre-Spurrier era and lost both times. These are not even top programs year in and year out. Part of the reason the Big Ten gets crap is because OSU when they have had success cannot beat one SEC team. Michigan has historically has beaten up on the SEC even before Carr was a coach. If we are going to talk about domination, I have a name for you, John Cooper. How did that work out for you?

Peace

John Cooper worked out just fine for OSU. His Michigan and Bowl records were not very good, but he sent more players to the NFL than any other big ten school during his career including Heisman Trophy winner Eddie George, 1996 Outland Trophy winner Orlando Pace, Alonzo Spellman, Robert Smith, Dan Wilkinson, Joey Galloway, Terry Glenn, Mike Vrabel, David Boston, Shawn Springs, Antoine Winfield, Ahmed Plummer, Na’il Diggs, Nate Clements, and Ryan Pickett. For the most part his Ohio State teams were fun to watch. Cooper had a won-loss record of 111-43-1 second only to Woody Hayes. During his tenure the Athletic Department raised the money to expand Ohio Stadium to 106,000 seats.

But I am not into a OSU/Michigan rivalry contest. I only pointed out the error in your Michigan/SEC listing and that OSU under Tressel has represented the Big Ten very well. Lloyd Carr, likewise, was one of the best coaches the Big Ten ever had and under his tenure Michigan became the all time leader in wins and winning per centage.

His retirement officially ends the Schembechler era at Michigan with a legacy of 33 straight bowl appearances. It could have been 39, the same number as the years of the Schembechler era, had the Big Ten allowed teams to go to more than just the Rose until 1975.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

But I am not into a OSU/Michigan rivalry contest. I only pointed out the error in your Michigan/SEC listing and that OSU under Tressel has represented the Big Ten very well.

The Big Ten is down. I will give you this: Tressel and his AD are smart as year in and year out (sine the Big Ten does not have a Conference Championship Game) sit back and wait for the SEC or the "other" conferences to "knock themselves out" and thus get into the National Championship game as evidenced by this year.

They were 10 and 1 but IMO that's not impressive because there out of conference schedule was a joke and the BIG Ten was down. Michigan was all "banged up" when they played them. They lost to Illinois who in turn got "manhandled" by USC.

The Championship Game should have been LSU vs. USC but that's another discussion (The BCS Fiasco)

Personally I am tired of seeing Ohio St in the Champoinship game each year. They did not deserve to go this year. The BIG Ten is down. Also, let's face it they got a REAL generous call when they beat Miami to win the Championship years ago.

Next year we will see what happens when the Buckeyes travel to USC. Finally a decent out of conference opponent.

Pete Booth

[jimpiano]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth]

The Big Ten is down. I will give you this: Tressel and his AD are smart as year in and year out (sine the Big Ten does not have a Conference Championship Game) sit back and wait for the SEC or the "other" conferences to "knock themselves out" and thus get into the National Championship game as evidenced by this year.

They were 10 and 1 but IMO that's not impressive because there out of conference schedule was a joke and the BIG Ten was down. Michigan was all "banged up" when they played them. They lost to Illinois who in turn got "manhandled" by USC.

The Championship Game should have been LSU vs. USC but that's another discussion (The BCS Fiasco)

Personally I am tired of seeing Ohio St in the Champoinship game each year. They did not deserve to go this year. The BIG Ten is down. Also, let's face it they got a REAL generous call when they beat Miami to win the Championship years ago.

Next year we will see what happens when the Buckeyes travel to USC. Finally a decent out of conference opponent.

Pete Booth

I don't know what you mean by sit back in wait. In 2002 the Buckeyes were undefeated going into the Fiesta Bowl and last year were also undefeated before facing Florida. This year they had one loss prior to the Championship game. In all three years they were ranked number one in the BCS.

Ohio State has home and homes for the next ten years with Southern Cal, Miami, Virginia Tech, California, and Oklahoma. And prior to this year played Texas home and away. This year Ohio State did, indeed, benefit from a down year for Washington of the Pac Ten and a number of Big Ten teams who had key injuries. But the Buckeyes did not lose to the likes of Appalachian State, Stanford, or Pittsburgh and therefore wound up playing in the BCS Title game, even though it was a rebuilding year, simply because all of the other contenders lost two or more times. A healthy LSU probably goes undefeated and WAS healthy in the title game. OSU will lose some juniors to the NFL, they always do, but returns almost everyone on offense.
They are already fifth in some preseason polls. The difference next year is Southern Cal and a stronger big ten, especially at Illinois, Wisconsin,Penn State and Michigan State. If Rodriguez gets his wide open offense going at Michigan, 2008 will be a great football year in the Big Ten.

[Cub42]

Pete makes a good point. The players didn't do themselves any favors by stonewalling the issue for years. But the MLB Grand Poohbah's seemed to turn a blind eye to this as long as TV ratings and record revenue poured in. My point is that you can't convict all of the players. This Mcnamee is less than a credible witness.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by Cub42

Pete makes a good point. The players didn't do themselves any favors by stonewalling the issue for years. But the MLB Grand Poohbah's seemed to turn a blind eye to this as long as TV ratings and record revenue poured in. My point is that you can't convict all of the players. This Mcnamee is less than a credible witness.

The next investigation will seek players who knew of steroid use and didn't report it to their superiors.
Mr. Torre, I would like to ask you some questions about the bad things that took place while you were in command.
I can't explain why MLB owners can't take responsibility, but Mr. Steinbrenner (Sp?), thank you for stepping down.
Duty, honor, courage.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Cub42

...This Mcnamee is less than a credible witness.

Less credible than Clemens?

McNamee had a strong self-interest in telling the truth, whatever the truth may be.

Clemens has a strong self-interest in denying taking steroids, whatever the truth may be.

So, which is less credible?