Hello fellow umps. Would like some feedback on fees you get in your respective associations. We are having a lively discussion in my association about what, if any, difference there should be in pay between the plate and base assignment.We give the plate the extra 5.00 as it stands now. We received an increase this year and some of the members feel a 10.00 difference is justified due to expense of equipment, getting banged up etc. We have a lot more base umps who for only 5.00 difference refuse to get on the dish.
All comments will be appreciated.

Thanks and have a great year!
Bake17

I think paying extra for working the plate is bush-league. In these parts, the pay is the same, and if a guy refuses to work his share of games behind the plate, he doesn't last long. I PREFER to work the plate, and I prefer to work games with other umps that feel the same. That way, I am confident that my partner really wants to be there. If I work a game with a guy that has a reputation of not wanting the plate, I feel like he is just there for the game fee. When I work a big tournament game, or a late-season game with post-season implications, I consider it a privelege to work the plate.

I agree that there should not be any regular base guys. My association on Long Isalnd does not have such an animal. You will always have the partner or two who show up five minutes before the game knowing you'll get dressed for the plate. Some have actually been seen cruising around to see if their partner(s) are there.

I used to prefer the plate because I had more confidence there. over the past few years I feel equally comfortable on the bases. The PU blows a couple of pitches the game is not effected as much as the BU who misses a few calls!

All this said if I were in an Association that did allow permanent BU's I'd expect to get at least the $10.00 differential. Jim/NYC

Here in the Santa Clara valley, norther CA., I've worked for the college, high school and summer baseball groups for a number of years and none of them support seperating umpires and giving seperate pay.
I think the main issue is that, while many who feel that working a plate is more difficult, they also feel that the base umpire can, and usually does, find it easier to get into 'crap' regarding his calls/duties.
Perhaps the rationale is simply this. What do you do if for some reason only the base umpire shows at a contest? Have the game cancelled ... no; call the game from behind the mound ... no; borrow equipment in order to work the plate ...no. It's far more equitible to have all umpires be prepared to work either assignment. It also makes it easier to know each day when you plan on working that you load all you gear w/o regard to a base or plate assignment.
We all know that anything, justified or unjustified, can happen and does happen from time to time. With that in mind all the organization that I belong to specifically design their scheduling operations so that a balanced scheduled is given to each and every umpire. With the software programs that are available for this purpose, it's very easy to remain aware of all umpires and the distribution of base and plate assignments so that they're evenly assigned. Also, it keeps most umpires from getting rusty in either position.
While it may sound nice on the surface, it's just not the best way to run an organization.


ED

Assigning Positions
 

Our association does not assign umpires to either position. It is up to the umpires for that game to decide. While rotation is more common it isn't mandatory. Usually if you had the plate last time we worked I have it today. But maybe I had a doubleheader earlier in the day that went into extra innings and I would prefer to not be behind the plate. Also I usually defer to my partner and I work with one or two guys who always want to work the plate. I don't think it is because they don't have confidence in me. It is just that they really feel more comfortable behind the dish.

Umpires Fee
 

Let me tell you this. I work D1 college Baseball and alot of summer adult college ball. If you don't have a enough money to buy some equipment then you need to find another hobby. If you don't want to work the plate then quit Umpiring. If you are going to arrive at the game 5 mins. before a single game because you don't want to work the plate then call me the night before the game and tell me you want me to work the game and I will work. I would rather be behind the plate any day you can have a lot more oppertunity to make mistakes on the bases then you do the plate. Balls and Strikes are confined by the batter and catcher and ump. In my view if you don't want to work the plate then you are probably not a good umpire nor will you be one.

Working two man, particularly at the college level is more difficult on the bases. Just too much area to cover, back end of double plays, check swings, interference calls, etc.

The pay should be equal for plate and base assignments!

<i> Originally posted by bake17 </i>

<b> Hello fellow umps. Would like some feedback on fees you get in your respective associations. We are having a lively discussion in my association about what, if any, difference there should be in pay between the plate and base assignment.We give the plate the extra 5.00 as it stands now. We received an increase this year and some of the members feel a 10.00 difference is justified due to expense of equipment, getting banged up etc. We have a lot more base umps who for only 5.00 difference refuse to get on the dish.
All comments will be appreciated. </b>

I'm not saying you do not have to hustle, get into proper position, etc. while doing the bases, but if one wants to "make a name for themselves ", move up or do advanced ball, one better be able to <i> take the dish </i>

Normally, it "evens out" over the cource of the season. No-one or at least I think no-one wants the dish everyday esepcially when the Heat arrives, but no-one should refuse to do the plate either.

IMO, this is one of the drawbacks in not having an assignor assign Plate / base responsibilities. If the assignor does not assign Plate / base responsibilities, than some form of protocol should be established ie; the senior person on the crew decides etc.

If you do not have anything "Official" and you cannot get umpires to do the plate, then make it a $25.00 differential. In other words lets assume a $100.00 game FEE for 2 umps. The PU would get $65.00 and the BU $35.00. Now let's see who wants to do the plate.

Also, at least in summer ball, most weekend games are Double Dips both on Saturdays and Sundays, therefore, it's not a problem in assigning the responsibilities. One does the Plate the first game and then you switch.

Pete Booth

Our association here in Southern Connecticut services High School & up. We get the same pay for bases or the plate. The job equals out in the long run anyway.

In most cases, the "extra pay" for the plate is in leagues or (heaven forbid) associations that have woossies for umpires!

i would have to say no more than a $5.00 difference. Other wise it aint fair to the base ump.

Late Penalty
 

Our association pays the same for plate and base work. If you have a plate assignment and you fail to arrive in time and the BU straps it on you are fined $10.

That sucks! In my association, the plate is not assigned, unless it's a big game and one guy is weak behind the plate. We keep track ourselves who did what the last game together and alternate. I, for one, don't mind where I work but if someone consistantly refused to work the plate, I would be ticked. We get the same fee for both.

Buster

Mmmm..

My Assoc (200 umpires) is similar in NO pre assignment.
BUT, big game, whatever should not matter. I question the "weak behind the plate" comment. BOTH umpires and any game should be qualified to work that game. If one is "weak behind the plate" he sure as hell should not be on the bases for THAT game. Who ever came up with the idea that you can stick a weak official on the bases? Is he going to hide?

We also, keep track. But your statement about someone refusing to work the plate is illogical. That should be IMPOSSIBLE. If I work Wed with partner A and do the dish... if we work Sat... partner A has the plate, no questions asked. HE can't "refuse" It's not possible.

In one league you get $10 extra for working the plate (30/20). If only one ump shows, he gets the fee for base and plate. We get a lot of no-show base umps and happy plate umps.

In our area, umpires volunteer to do the big district games for free. I'm one of them, but I rarely get a plate.

What was your primary MOS in the military, Thomas?

Tim.

LRRP, nuff said

>>If you don't have a enough money to buy some equipment then you need to find another hobby.<<

This is a bit shortsighted for those starting out.

Can I AFFORD $400-500 (in addition to another $150 or so for stuff for the bases) for plate equipment? Sure. Do I want to spend that much before I start working, knowing I will only make probably twice that in the season and at the same time not knowing if I am going to like it enough to continue?

If you are in your second plus year of umpiring, yes, you need the equipment and you need to work the bucket with regularity. But the same may not be true of first years.

associations shouldn't pay different for bases and plate. in fact, some can make an argument that the bases are harder than the plate.

Since we're going to respond to a thread that was abandoned 3 years ago, okay....I agree that fees should be the same. That's the way we do it. You trade of the dish each time you work with someone. I actually have some friends who will work the plate every time if I want them to. These guys don't care for the bases so much. Who am I to argue at my age.

There are groups that have to pay the plate umpire more, simply because it's hard to get some umpires to work the plate without some kind of bribe. The assigners are put in a tough position having to find umpires for all the games, and they do not have the manpower to just say "fine, I don't need you." It's all a matter of supply and demand. Where I live, there is no shortage of umpires, so the assigners have more leverage. If you don't want an assignment, there are many others who will take it.

Hmmm,
 

We normally have between 160 and 180 umpires in our association.

We are short of umpires.

Umpires are assigned by an assigning secretary to work games. The assignor directs who works the plate and who is on the bases.

You do not change that assignment, ever.

All umpires are required to work both plates and bases as assigned. We would NEVER pay an umpire a bonus to work the plate. It is their job. If they do not do it then they do not work.

We are also paid for games by the association and are given 1099's at seasons end. All umpire fees are reported to the state and federal government as required by law. All umpires I know claim all their income.

Pretty simple in my area.

Tee

[Edited by Tim C on Dec 14th, 2005 at 09:30 AM]

i remember working LL when i was 14 and getting an extra $5 for doing the plate. that was a hell of a deal to me. however, that still wasnt enough for most of the kids i worked with.


other than using it as a motivational tool for 14 year old kids that want to work strictly on the bases, the rate should be the same.

Re: Hmmm,
 

Really? Not ever? What happens when the assigned plate umpire gets stuck in traffic or is otherwise delayed? Do you start the game late? Not at all? Isn't starting a game on time more important to an assignor than who does what?

Normally, we are not told what position to work. But even if we are, if my partner is not at the site 30 minutes before game time, I start getting dressed for the plate. I call my assignor fifteen minutes before game time to tell him my partner has not arrived and that I might be starting the game by myself, then follow-up after the game to let him know what happened.

Hmmm,
 

As I have stated over-and-over:

I do not work one man games. If my partner does not show or is late, the game will not start with one umpire. Much like in some states that REQUIRE two umpires for a game to even start (legal and safety matters) I will not work a one man.

Chappy, of course if there was a reason, other than personal choice, a guy could move to the dish if it was a forced neccessity.

Again, I will not work a game one man.

Tee

PS: I am the ONLY umpire that I work with that gets to a game 30 minutes before the start. THE ONLY ONE. 15 minutes is a lot and many arrive 5 minutes before first pitch.

t

Re: Hmmm,
 

In our association arrival 30 min prior is a mandate. Officials who arrive later than 30 min. more than once in a season are fined by our board $5.00 per occurance. If the official should show up late more than 5 times in one season his schedule is suspended. This measure has take our association from having several late or no shows 5-6 years ago to almost none in the last 2-3 seasons.

Re: Re: Hmmm,
 

Wow, 30 minutes prior to game time! That seems like alot of time to be sitting around waiting for a game to start. I don't think I would even umpire if they made that a mandate. My time is just to valuable.

In CT, with the start times of our games and the fact that alot of our umpires are teachers, me included, arriving 30 minutes prior would be logistically impossible for many of the games. 15 minutes is what I shoot for. Sometimes, the schedule and traffic dictate that I get there with time enough to put on the gear and do the plate conference. Not optimal for sure, but it happens.

Oh, and how exactly do they know what time the umpire is arriving?

Our association recommends that both umpires be at the game site one hour before game time, but require us to be there 30 minutes prior to game time. That way you can get with your partner, make contact with both coaches, walk the field to insure that it is tight, and to raise any ground rule questions if it is not, and then get your gear and uniform on and still be on time for the first pitch.

Kaliix:

I would imagine that arriving 15 minutes early would suffice for the most part if you're working solo.

If you're working a two man, you still need a little extra time to briefly go over coverages with your partner and determine which one of you will work the dish.

I was taught, and always recommend, that you should take the time to walk the fence even if you're familiar with the field.

This get's the blood pumping a little prior to stretching which is important for umpires. We need to bust our butts out there to show professionalism, and it's hard to do that with a pulled muscle.

I understand that the logistics involved in getting to a game during rush hour traffic can be a nightmare, but for me personally, 30 minutes early is a mark I always shoot for.


Tim.

Re: Hmmm,
 

Tee,

This tells me a lot about the lack of quality of your organization. There is no way that umpires can put on a quality performance without a pregame. The attitude that is demonstrated by showing up less than 15 minutes to game time indicates that your umpires do not take their responsibilities seriously. The plate conference is supposed to be 5-10 minutes before the first pitch!

30 minutes is the minimum that a quality organization requires quality umpires to show up prior to game time. Fields must be inspected, balls rubbed down, bats and helmets checked, the pre-game with your partner, and finally, putting on your uniform properly and making sure you look right, cannot be done in less than 30 minutes.

We are required to be there an hour before game time for NCAA ball. We check in with the coaches or game management and we are fined if we are late.

Peter

Re: Re: Hmmm,
 

I imagine if you are in an area that has more umpires than needed, you can get away with mandated arrival 30 minutes before game time. When you are in an area that is chronically short on umpires, you have to accomodate people's schedules in order to put umpires on the field. It has more to do with logistical realities than the quality of the organization.

The NCAA has many more umpires willing to work than games available. They can enforce all kinds of rules that wouldn't fly for NFHS or summer league games.

And for the record, I agree with everyone who believes that you need to be at the game ahead of time. If I have the time, 20 minutes is good for me. I come to the field dressed. The only thing I am putting on is plate gear and a shirt (or just the shirt if I am on the bases).

Re: Re: Re: Hmmm,
 

We are also chronically short of umpires. We feel that it is better to turn away business or raise fees and have a quality product, than to put any old crap onto the field.

Umpires know better than to accept a game that they cannot make 30 minutes prior. I will admit however, that on occasion (usually for rec ball) we give them permission in advance to cut the 30 minute advance showing down to five or ten minutes when that is the only thing that will get them to accept the game. They have to have prior approval for this.

The Arbiter has on-line reporting. Show up five minutes before a game and your partner will make a computer entry in the game report reflecting this so the assignor will know.

Peter

Re: Re: Re: Re: Hmmm,
 

There are times I miss working in a large association with all kinds of rules and opportunities for backstabbing -- then I see a post by Peter and I'm happy with my situation again. Thanks, Peter!

Where did this come from? Could it be that you bear Rich ill will because he disagreed with your make up call analogy?


I fail to see how Rich's post was in any way a reflection upon you, PWL.


I would imagine that large associations can be a nightmare. It sound's like Rich has had experience with both large and small associations. He was simply stating his opinion. You should learn to respect that.

Tim.

[Edited by bob jenkins on Dec 16th, 2005 at 09:42 AM]

My one and only response to the flame-baiting troll, whose presence here makes this forum resemble McGriff's more and more.

I am who I am, with my name out there for the world to see. You want to think I'm a brown noser, that's great.

But riddle me this -- there are no assigning associations where I live. I get my games directly from league commissioners (HS and college) with whom I communicate solely by email and with whom I don't actually work. So, whose butt am I kissing then?

So it would be better to work a schedule where every move is criticized and reported upon by someone you call your "partner?" Great system, that is.

--Rich

[Edited by bob jenkins on Dec 16th, 2005 at 09:42 AM]

Rich
 

Rich,
I agree wholeheartedly that in a lot of the bigger associations there is more politics and a$$ kissing then truly needs to be, but in our association we have assignment software that the coaches can submit online evaluations for each game with the officials and game info already input for them. One of the questions is did the officials arrive on time and introduce themselves to the game personel. Coaches and umpires alike take a lot of things for granted. One of the reasons why we have never had an issue over pay in our area is our great working relationship with the schools. Coaches like to know that their officials are taken care of and that they do not need to worry about how many they are going to have. I know that in a lot of places in the country travel times are much higher and umpires are not always as plentiful. Just simply stating that this is a minor thing that we try to work hard at to help improve the lines of communication and goodwill with our member schools. I appreciate your comments whether or not they match my own.

Re: Re: ????????
 

PWL,

Tourettes Syndrome doesn't say the half of it. What's wrong with you? You post makes less sense than thomaswhite did just prior to his self destruction.

PWL may soon be following Mr. White.

Bob

You "caught me surfing last night?"

What are you, some kind of internet police? You need to really get a life, loser! I go where I please.

I, unlike you, have the cojones to back up whatever I say. I was right about the rule, others were confused. You're just mad at all the people who tried to help you out. It is you that is wrong about nearly everything you post.

I also would not go and change my profile, it remains the same. At that web site, it is suggested by site management to not put in a real e-mail address, so I made one up which I thought was pretty funny. In no way do I want to take your busboy job at Denny's away from you. But leave it to you to be crude enough to actually post it. So, you look like a fool, big deal.

As far as what name I use, people here know what name I use there, and at other sites as well. You're not telling them anything they don't already know, Mr. Shock and Awe.
So why don't you go back to minding everybody elses business, and leave my business the hell alone?

[Edited by SanDiegoSteve on Dec 17th, 2005 at 12:40 AM]

Wow, you really are a gem, PWL. In the words of our own immortal Windy, " english must not be your first language."

Had you spent the time necessary to investigate your facts, you would have found out what all of us have known for quite some time. The moniker Augie Donatelli was the non de' plum of choice for Steve Meyers from SanDiego. The ABUA board was the first board he began posting on several months ago. After recieving some scrutiny from several members of the board for using the name of a famous umpire as a moniker, he changed his alias to SanDiegoSteve, and began posting here as well. He's never denied the fact that he uses another moniker on that board.

Thomas, although only here a short time, made it clear that he was from Alabama. Thomas never opened his e-mail up to this forum. How you can say that his and Steve's are the same is beyond me. There is no possible way for you to know the e-mail address for Thomas.

What I find interesting, is that I don't recall seeing the moniker PWL on the ABUA forum. You admitt you read the board, but what moniker do you post under on that particular board? If you're ready to engage Steve in a rules debate on that forum, I would suggest you step up to the plate and do so. I'll be looking for a PWL in the thread.

Moving on to your disdain for Rich Fronheiser. Can you please provide a link to a thread where he's insulted you. I've never seen one, as far as I can recall anyway. I did see Rich try to explain to you that make up calls are not the thing to do, but it certainly wasn't done in a condescending or insulting manner. You seem to take any criticism, however small, as a personal insult. You need to understand that guys like Rich who post here have been around the block, and around, and back again. You should take into consideration what kind of experience they have, and value their opinions.

For example. You described a balk you innapropriately called. After the first person responded to your post, telling you that you should have handled it better, you argued. After that, another person told you that you were wrong, and you then argued with them. I'm not going to go back and pull up that thread, but I would imagine that at least 6 or 7 people told you that you were wrong, and still you continued to argue. At what point will you admitt that you may have been wrong and move on?

This can be a great place for a new umpire like yourself to learn, if you are not above learning from others.

Tim.

BTW- It was "took" the words right out of my mouth in the song recorded by Meat Loaf.

[Edited by BigUmp56 on Dec 17th, 2005 at 01:00 AM]

Do you mean condescending or do you think I'm an air conditioner?

If you're this thin-skinned on the field, heaven help you. I can't even remember what post you're talking about, and I'm not spending the next hour looking for it. I just spent 12 hours flying home and I'm heading to bed.

Re: Re: Re: ????????
 

Bob,

Thank you for the proper spelling of Tourettes. I knew mine was probably wrong, as I was guessing!

PWL,

There's a song by Eminem called "Big Weenie" and it describes you perfectly.

Please learn how to properly post, by separating my statements of fact in bold, and your non-sensical drivel which follows in regular type.

All anyone was trying to do was help make you a better umpire, but you decided to go postal on everyone. You are the one who thought it would be cute to mention what I do on another web site, as if anyone cared.

The moderator should remove you from this board. JMO.

Actually, Steve, from what I managed to catch before the thread was deleted, you may have "thought" about the rule correctly, but what you expressed wasn't correct until Jenkinson "guided" you a bit near the end. You strike me as someone who types before they think things out. I would guess that if you slowed down your reaction time a little, your attempts at rules questions would come off better.

Probably. There, how's that?

Thirteen minutes. Not too bad.

Once again, you're showing your maturity level. Do you really think this subtle homophobic insult would not be recognized?

Your attempts to insult with subtleties are as transparent as your attempts to convince others that you are more than a rookie umpire.

What's next? Racial or ethnic taunts?


Tim.

Dude, you wouldn't make a pimple on a real umpire's butt!

Maybe in your little podunk town, where coaches never get ejected, and the home team's uniforms never get dirty, they probably made you a varsity umpire right out of the box. But in the real world you work your way up to that level.

Depends on what part of the real world one inhabits. In my area, the majority of umpires start at the high school level; some of them start at the varsity level.

On this board there are several umpires who started at the high school level. Tee, I know, started at the varsity level.

Point taken.

Never ran nobody either, for that matter.

Where did we go wrong
 

Gentlemen,
I could care less whose is bigger or who got to varsity first. Let's please put away the petty bickering and get back to the subject of baseball. I do not claim to be a great umpire, I am just looking for a little insight into the game and its workings that I can use to improve myself. It is very discouraging to have to sift through 25 posts of endless inane banter just to find one worthwhile nugget. Not every post will please everyone and not everyone will agree on every rule. State your opinion and move on leave the personal jabs at home. It was once written..."An umpire is a loner. The restraints of his trade impose problems not normally endured by players, coaches, management, press and others connected with organized baseball. He is a friend to none. More often he is considered an enemy by all around him - including the fans in the stands who threaten his life." - Art Rosenbaum in The San Francisco Chronicle (1965) The only friends that we have are our fellow umpires who understand what we have to put up with. No sense in beating our own into submission. Just my two cents worth and thats at least three more than I have right now.

Baseball ump fees
 

I dont believe there should be a difference for working the plate vs bases. Both jobs are equally important and she be treated that way. Behind the plate is more action and activity but the big call at first base is just as important.

Wow
 

WOW!!!!!

782 days later. How's that for timing?

Walt

At the local LL, I pay our Junior umpires on a sliding scale, plate/bases, Major/Minors. It creates an incentive to move up, and get better.

But, when I work for the local association, you'd damn well better be able to share the load, with no price differential. Unless a guy is disabled, and can only work one position or another, there's no excuse aside from being a p*ssy. It's one thing if your assignor says he's not ready yet. But quite another if says he only wants to work the bags.

Speak for yourself. I have plenty of non-umpires friends. Hopefully, in the last two years, you do too. If not, you need a new hobby.