Such Arrogance Barry
 

It's reported that Barry Bonds will boycott the Hall Of Fame if his HR record has an asterisk. Someone tell him he first has to be elected.

I saw that as well and I won't lose any sleep if he's not in there. He still has 2 months to find out if he's elected to the state penn.

Reminds me of Huckleberry Finn's father: "I'da voted myself if I warn't too drunk to get there!"

Who cares? This is years away and he has a right to feel that way.

Peace

I agree 100%. I would be pissed if they put a friggin asterisk on my HR record that I spent years breaking. Nobody is going to convict Bonds for anything folks, so just get that out of your heads now. Hundreds of MLB players use steroids, including many pitchers who Barry Bonds hit home runs off. Are we going to see asterisks on every one of those? I think not, so get over the fact that Barry clobbered more home runs than Aaron and everyone's golden boy Ruth.

Steroids or not, it takes a whole lot of talent to even hit a baseball, much less hit it out of stadiums against major league pitching. Steroids don't make that much difference when it comes to the hand/eye coordination and other batting skills.

Ahem,
 

Gentlmen:

Please re-read the press release.

You have "jumped the shark" here:

The issue that Bonds is speaking to is the BASEBALL that he hit for #756.

As you all remember the guy that bought the ball allowed the public to vote on what would eventually happen to the ball. As I remember there were choices such as: "Shoot it on a rocket into outer space" or "blow it up" (nee: the "Bartman Ball").

The overwhelming choice was to place an asterisk ON the ball and give it to the HOF.

What Bonds is saying is: "if the HOF displays the ball with the * on it he then would select to "boycott" his possible induction ceremony.

Regards,

Then in the words of Emily Litella....never mind!

Hand eye coordination you either have it or you don't I agree. However, generally speaking, your stats don't improve as you age nor does your reaction time. I don't know if this is true or not but I heard that steroids improve your vision. Barry was a Hall of Famer before he started cheating.

I still say who cares? And stuff like this is the reason baseball is struggling in many places. Instead of worrying about the skill of the players or the game, you have guys that are so worried what record someone had 80 years ago when the game was not even played the same. Good Lord records are made to be broken. Steroids or no steroids players are better, faster, stronger, have more training and we have people that cannot believe that someone can pass a record of a player that did not take care of himself at all.

Peace

Again you have quoted me and then said "you guys" as if you are including me in with the others, when I was agreeing with you to begin with.

But they shrink your balls, so I guess the trade-off is worth it to some people.

Despite the build-up of circumstantial evidence to support this claim, he has not been convicted, nor has he ever tested positive for steroids, so it is still unproven that he cheated.

That may or may not be true.

What is true is that he has never tested positive for steriods as far as the public knows.

Results of steriord tests in the past were not always made public as they have been recently.

We know he took steroids (he says he took it unknowingly) the clear. He claims he was told it was flax seed oil. What could a drop of flax seed oil under the tongue do for you! You're naive if you beleive he never knowingly took steroids human growth or whatever. The preponderance of evidence suggests he cheated.

Agree that it aint easy to hit a baseball.

What's even harder is to keep hitting a baseball for distance after an age where that ability is *normally* reduced.

Besides increased strength (hitting the ball over the wall instead of to the warning track) I understand that some steroids actually improve vision in some cases, or at least reduce vision loss due to aging. There's your hand/eye connection.

Is this true in Bonds' case? Who knows...but his record does show an increase in HR output at a point where most players start to seriously consider retirement.

edit oops, repeating Gordon. That's 2 votes at least :)

Do you really think most people who are in the "asterix bucket" are there because they don't want Barry to break a record set by Aaron or Ruth? Or do you think they are there becasue they are anti-cheaters? I know he has not been proven guilty of knowingly cheating and to that I call BS.

The fact that Barry said he would boycott the Hall if the ball is displayed with an asterisk as all the more reason to brand it on all sides with asterisks. Keep him out of a place that he doesn't deserve to be in since he cheated.

As long as Pete Rose is banned, they should never induct another player!!

I wonder if everyone will say the same thing about Clemens and others when it's their turn to go into The Hall. It was an entire era of steroid use. The truth is we still have no idea about how widespread of a problem it was. I don't buy for a second that MLB itself wasn't aware of the problem as they tried to put the fans back in the stands, post strike of 1994. They wanted to see the ball flying out of the parks, and turned a blind eye to steroid usage. The pitchers were juicing, the hitters were juicing. Hell, I think even the bat boys were on the stuff..........;)


Tim.

As long as you brought it up. Pete Rose is another case of such arrogance.

Pete Rose brought his banishment upon himself. Why rewrite the rules for Mr. I Thought I Was Teflon. This is one of the few things that baseball got right.

As for Barry, he needs to remember that a certain percentage of votes from a panel of voters that generally stay the same through the years have to elect him for enshrinement into the Hall. If 2007 was his last year, he still has five years to piss off voters, or to be found guilty of cheating. Remember Marion Jones of Olympic fame? Players like Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, and Juan Gonzalez (and probably others too countless to mention) who in different eras had lead pipe Hall of Fame careers, might never see it in their lifetime, if ever at all.

Baseball doesn't need Bonds as bad as he needs baseball. The Hall of Fame will certainly not suffer one bit without him. His statements will only come back to haunt him in the future if he continues to make such stupid remarks.

Look everybody....RAW MEAT!

If I remember correctly, Rose agreed to be permanently ineligible. I don't see the comparison between Rose and Bonds on the HOF issue, as it stands today.

Regardless of whether I think Barry Bonds used steroids, I think it would show a complete and total lack of class to display a ball marked with one or many asterisks. I think it is all a non-issue at this point, though. The ball is not on display, and Bonds has not been voted into the HOF. Who's to say he doesn't make a deal in the future similar to Rose's?

I'll reserve my right to make a judgment until circumstances change.

Remember, there is a LIE in believe.

I did not say I believed one thing or the other, just that you're not gonna get Bonds on anything, so everyone needs to drop it. Unless of course you plan on putting asterisks on every modern player's record.

Also remember, Evian is naive spelled backward.

Gerg Nosredna is so evian he's sitting in a jail cell because he refuses to testify in front of a grand jury. What's he got to lose if there is nothing to hide?

I'm saving this post.

He has everything to gain by testifying. It sounds to me he does not mind sitting in jail to prevent a witch hunt.

Peace

That's it for sure. Altruism in it's purist form. Nosredna would rather give up his freedom, his ability to care for his family, his professional life, and his future for nothing more than the warm feeling he'll get from preventing "a witch hunt."

A grateful Barry down the road will be just a coincidental small bonus.

I do not know his personal life or what he is obligated to do. But what you said is what many people did for many other causes that they believed in. I think many civil rights leaders for example did just that for what they believed in. This is not a national movement, but it might be something he believes in. Just because the rest of you here do not have that kind of courage to take a jail time for something you believe in does not mean he has something to hide. Maybe he feels testifying is not going to get justice. That after all is his right and he is paying for it.

Peace

Stereotyped. You a$$ume too much from posted argument.

Maybe you should ask first. Then again, I don't think you care to know.

And I don't buy the a$$umption that Garth or anyone here is not willing to pay a price for their beliefs. Some of us do that daily.

Ignorance is bliss.

Flame-On!:mad:

I agree with you 100%!

Although I personally believe that Bonds used steroids, I don't believe an asterisk should be placed on his achievement. Baseball has always had "eras." As baseball moves on, this will simply be known as the Steroid Era and everybody will recognize it as that - without the need for any silly asterisks. Bonds' achievement will be seen for what it is and each individual can ascribe to this achievement whatever they desire.

Sure - it takes skill to hit homeruns, whether you're on steroids or not. If I started pumping up on steroids, I couldn't hit a major league fastball out of the park, not to mention even hit it at all. I think there are many major league hitters who, given the benefit of steroids, would never come close to achieving what Bonds has achieved. Yet, it has to be assumed that many of Bonds' homeruns would have been nothing more than long flyballs had steroids not been involved.

I say, let him have his record and allow individuals to take it for what it's worth.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

You compare the civil rights movement with covering up steriod use?

Shame on you.

Barry Who? My main concern is how long will it take for the Giants to be out of the running for A-Rod? Let me count the seconds!!

I agree baseball has "eras" Dead Ball Era comes to mind. However the Steroid Era has destroyed the concept of comparing the achievements of present day players to those of the past. eg. In the past if you hit 500 HR's it would gurantee a spot in the HOF. Now that milestone doesn't look that great. Stats. are what made baseball unique. No other major sport even comes close IMO.

HOF Off-base
 

This is from the "Overview" section of the HOF Museum's web page:

"The Hall of Fame has stood as the definitive repository of the game's treasures and as a symbol of the most profound individual honor bestowed on an athlete."

I think that this statement in part represents the dilemma of the HOF. How can athletes on one hand be "honored" by an institution that at the same time fuels speculation about that player's dishonorable acts, by displaying an article that is supposedly a "treasure" of the game?

HOF is the not using good judgment here. They should state that they have no intention on displaying that ball to the public unless the implication of the defacement of the ball becomes proven fact.

Until that occurs, the HOF by displaying that ball, would be lowering itself to the level of the National Enquirer by peddling innuendo. That would seem to be contrary to it's stated mission. HOF should just conditionally loan the ball to the Smithsonian and let them put it on display as an article of public interest.

I don't consider a ball that has been defaced by some rich attention seeker to be a treasure of the game. If at some point, history shows the ball to have relevance to proven facts, then the HOF should consider making it a part of its public display.

With all due respect, unless you know the man or have talked to him while he is in jail, you have no idea why he is doing what he is doing. And to suggest that he is making a bad decision when you have not talked to this person is ludicrous (not the rapper). I always find it funny how people try to put their personal values onto other people that they do not even know. ;)

Peace

hee hee....
 

Then we concur that you are assuming! Wonderful!

I did not make the comment nor inference he was making a bad decision. You a$$umed once again. Thank You.

And this is why baseball is dying and losing interest of the youth and dying in participation. You have people that cannot believe that someone with better training, more money at stake and can be better than some guy 50 years ago. No other sport honestly thinks some guy 50 years ago is as good or versatile than players in today’s games.

So go ahead and call it the steroid era and think that someone could not be better than a beer drinking, fat guy that played in the first half of the last century (not that fields sizes have changed or travel accommodations have also more sufficient). Kids today do not even know how most of those players are and likely do not care. These are who will bring the game to another level, not some 50 year old man who never saw many of these players they worship as some baseball God.

Peace

I honestly was not only talking about you or only about your point of view. But thank you for playing. ;)

Peace

Don't be ridiculous Jeff. You do it every day. We all do.

Funny? No. It's a cornerstone of a civilized world. Without it, our grand jury system would fold and our criminal justice system would be in chaos. The very basis or our laws if the placing of our values on others, whether we know them or not.

I can see it now, "Your honor, how can this jury convict my client of child molesting? They're just putting their personal values on him, and they don't even know him!!!"

Jeff, I have no knowledge of the homicidal moron who bombed the 16th street church, but I, and the rest of society, are happy to "put our personal values" into play and judge him never-the-less.

One can withhold judgement about how someone chooses to live his life to a point. That point is when there is evidence that a crime is committed. Nosredna has, admittedly, committed a crime. I don't need to get to know him to form an opinion of him or why he refused to give the details of that crime.

If you have evidence that someone did something, you can bring an indictment without one person's testimony. If it is a solid case they would not need the testimony. And when someone does not want to give testimony, they suffer consequences.

And this sacred system had to journalist willing to go to jail because they would not reveal a source that gave them illegal information from that same Grand Jury. They were willing to go to jail because their cause in their mind was just. And if I am not mistaken they were plead guilty to a crime for withholding their sources.

And who cares, if the man wants to spend jail time that is what he is willing to do. Why do you care what his motives are or what they are not? I know I do not even care. Remember he was being charged with more than information on Barry. He was accused of selling a drug that might have to do with other people that could do more harm to his family than anything Barry can ever do to him.

Peace

Are you sure about that? ;)

Hasn't been convicted yet. It's not over till the 'roids-raging fat lady sings. I still doubt he does one day of jail time because he is extremely rich and can probably buy his way out of it. I find it comical that this modern day Salem witch-hunt is going to go after Bonds, as if that's going to deter the hundreds of other pro athletes that are on steroids. A joke is what it is, just not funny.

Steroids weren't mentioned in the indictment. Bonds was indicted on perjury and obstruction of justice charges. Hard to buy your way out of that. BTW-Greg Anderson was also ordered released from jail.

You need to do more reading or watching the news. Greg Anderson's lawyers have come out blasting the government for not releasing him earlier. And they were adamant that he did not talk to the government and the government said that Anderson did not talk. Anderson was released because the government could proceed without his testimony.

Peace

Interesting article: The Truth Could Have Set Bonds Free

In case someone hasn't registered for the NY Times web site and doesn't want to, here are a couple of quotes from the article:

True however, the implication being is he took steroids. As I understand it once the Grand Jury votes to indict their work is done. Anderson is then eligible to be released. I also understand his testimony is not required.

A year from now let's compare predictions.

Yours: "...Nobody is going to convict Bonds for anything folks, so just get that out of your heads now..."

Mine: Before this is over, Bonds will either accept a plea deal or be convicted of at least one count of the indictment.

Actually, I had just amended my prediction to "no jail time." I predict that any plea deal will result in "no jail time" for Bonds. I really did believe that Bonds was like Teflon and that nothing would stick to him, but now I am not quite as sure. It looked like Bonds was getting a pass. Still, "no jail time" is my prediction, regardless of any conviction. I say he still plays baseball next year too.

You are so Evian...........;)

I'd be surprised if he is a first ballot HOF in five years.

I'll take tha bet...let's make it friendly....say $20?

But let's clarify....I say he will not be playing baseball in the Major Leagues in the U.S.

He will still be going through this next summer. I don't believe there is a team around that wants that kind of distraction.

"no jail time" is my prediction

Mine, too. The lawyers and activists will soon transform this legal case into a political case. Bonds would lose the legal case; he won't lose the political one.

Two other points:

1. There may be more people in the United States today than 50 years ago, but the pool of ballplayers is smaller—even including the Dominican Republic and Japan—to fill many more teams. In 1957 a typical high school would see at least 100 boys go out for baseball, and the coach would have to cut some good players. Today high school coaches cut no good players.

2. It may be conventional media "wisdom" that Babe Ruth was a beer-drinking fat guy, but he was actually the best pitcher in baseball for 7 years, and then proceeded to hit, routinely, more homers per season than any other entire team. He was also a good baserunner and a very fine outfielder. Yes, he was overweight at the end of his career, but look at pictures of him 15 years into his career and tell me you see a fat guy.

I'll qualify my prediction. If they find out that Bonds didn't declare a bunch of income, then he will do some time.

Hmmm... OK, but revising a prediction based on current events is not a prediction. It is merely reporting. :) There are few new facts in the indictment other than the indictment itself. It does, however, forever put to rest the claim by some Bonds apologists that he has never tested positive for steroids. Test reports are part of the government case against him for perjury (according to news reports).

What, now you're a weatherman? If you're going to change your prediction everytime something comes out that many of us have been saying all a long, you're really not predicting.

"Nail that plate down, ump."

Hey all,

Let's take a look back at the last of the "rich & famous" to lie to the Gov't.......

Let me re-introduce you to Martha Stewart. She didn't do hard time, but as someone who works for the Gov't, I can tell you that the Gov't does not like being lied to, especially under oath!

See also, Clinton, William Jefferson, Lying to Grand Jury about sex with an intern. Remember his impeachment?!?!?

Michael Vick, AKA by my son and some of his friends as "Dog Killer". "It's not my house." "Well, it is my house, but I did not do anything there." Etc, etc.... He started serving his sentence today.

LomUmp:cool:

You and Garth just don't get it I guess. Now that there is an actual case against Bonds brought forward (there was not one at the time of my original statement that Bonds was untouchable), I have the right to change my prediction. My last prediction was wrong. I was freely admitting that I may have spoken a bit too soon as to any conviction.

Dakota, I am not reporting anything. I say he will get "no jail time." That is a real prediction. It is not "merely reporting," as you call it. That makes me friggin Nostradamus here.

Garth, If I had a spare $20 I would find a better use for it than making bets with you. I don't know the case well enough to put money on its outcome to begin with. I am just cynical enough to think that Bonds will buy his way out of trouble and come out smelling like a rose. This is just my opinion, not an exacta at Santa Anita.

Right: if it were an exacta, you'd also wager on Anderson.

Five months in a federal prison camp is not getting off free.

Maybe a more harsh punishment should be another season with the Giants?

Hey all,

It's about as close as it gets, though.

How about making him play for the Marlins, after they get rid of Cabrera and D-Train!!:D:D Or maybe even the Rays in Tampa Bay!!

LomUmp:cool:

Why punish the Giants?

I was just expecting past "revisions" to continue... and, I was just jerking your chain, nothing serious. ;)