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-   -   The Lofton Out at Second (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/39036-lofton-out-second.html)

rookieblue Tue Oct 23, 2007 05:47pm
Quote:
Prayers appreciated.
Prayers outgoing. . .

GarthB Tue Oct 23, 2007 06:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve
Currently evacuated to in-laws due to fires. Hope I don't lose home. Prayers appreciated.

Prayers from Spokane on the way, as well as an engine company that left last night.

Welpe Tue Oct 23, 2007 06:30pm
Prayers from here as well, Steve. :(

Anonymous67 Tue Oct 23, 2007 07:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve


Currently evacuated to in-laws due to fires. Hope I don't lose home. Prayers appreciated.

Thought maybe I see you here today. I've been in DC for almost a month. I was to fly home tomorrow, but decided to head to San Diego to check in on relatives. It's a b*tch trying to get a flight, though. I may have to fly to SFO and then drive down.

Stay cool.

DG Tue Oct 23, 2007 07:36pm
Pete

Good points, but there was no continuous action on the Lofton play. The ball was not dead but the call was fixable via IR. What if it was the bottom of the 9th in a tie game with none out. The call would be critical and the IR proponents would argue that IR should be used to get it right.

And like I said, I am NOT a proponent of IR.

jimpiano Tue Oct 23, 2007 08:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DG
Pete

Good points, but there was no continuous action on the Lofton play. The ball was not dead but the call was fixable via IR. What if it was the bottom of the 9th in a tie game with none out. The call would be critical and the IR proponents would argue that IR should be used to get it right.

And like I said, I am NOT a proponent of IR.
What would be wrong with that premise is that it would change how that call was made in the previous 162 games of the year.

Just because the press box is full of sportswriters and the TV audience is bigger does not warrant changing the way the game is played in the post season. After all any call in the 9th inning of a tied regular season game could have affected what team even got to the post season.

The other problem with your argument is you cannot base a replay on the lack of any other action. Assuming a bad call you would suggest that if there is no other action then review it? But if the play has continuing and ensuing action after the call we ignore it?

SanDiegoSteve Wed Oct 24, 2007 02:37am
Thanks to all for the well-wishes, prayers, and kind words. Hopefully the air tanker fixed-wing planes will knock these fires out and we can go home soon. If they get going first thing in the morning, I think my place will be alright. I feel tremendously bad for those who have lost their homes.

David B Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve
Despite your insistance, 12 to 15 feet away is a very good distance away from a force play. You should be much closer to the play for a tag. We've bantied this one about ad nauseum, but that's the way Jon Bible taught it, as well as the pro school guys I learned from. How the hell can you see a really slick tag of the runner on a banger from 15 feet away? What, you wearin' binoculars? I rarely missed a banger tag play over the years (other than the occasional pickoff where I was, listen closely, TOO FAR from the play). I feel that it was my positioning in a little closer proximity to the play that gave me a far superior look at exactly what transpired.

Currently evacuated to in-laws due to fires. Hope I don't lose home. Prayers appreciated.

I can agree with what you said. When I said 12-15 feet that was probably in haste for a tag play, but I like what Bob said above, he was in the best possible position for him to be, I think the play fooled him and he was just late getting into position.

Sorry to read about the evacuation, have put you on our prayer list at church.

Thanks
David

bobbybanaduck Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by David B
I think the play fooled him and he was just late getting into position.
you're still wrong.

SanDiegoSteve Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by David B
Sorry to read about the evacuation, have put you on our prayer list at church.

Thanks
David
Thanks David, and all the others too!

LomUmp Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:37pm
Hey all,

First and foremost, thoughts and prayers go out to anyone involved in the fire situations.

I believe that the Tribes 3rd base coach holding Lofton at third when the ball was @ 30-40' away from Manny being Manny in left field was MORE detrimental to the Indians' cause. Sure, it didn't involve a call by an umpire, but I still think that is what cost them the game, and eventually, the series.

LomUmp:cool:

gordon30307 Wed Oct 24, 2007 02:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LomUmp
Hey all,

First and foremost, thoughts and prayers go out to anyone involved in the fire situations.

I believe that the Tribes 3rd base coach holding Lofton at third when the ball was @ 30-40' away from Manny being Manny in left field was MORE detrimental to the Indians' cause. Sure, it didn't involve a call by an umpire, but I still think that is what cost them the game, and eventually, the series.

LomUmp:cool:
I think Cleveland got blown out in that game. How could 1 run make a difference. If the run scored all it does is tie the game. BTW if memory serves me correct there was one out and the next batter hit into a DP. At best the game is tied and Cleveland still loses.

LomUmp Wed Oct 24, 2007 03:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon30307
I think Cleveland got blown out in that game. How could 1 run make a difference. If the run scored all it does is tie the game. BTW if memory serves me correct there was one out and the next batter hit into a DP. At best the game is tied and Cleveland still loses.
Hey all,

I think that the game would have been played differently by the Indians if they were tied and not behind. Would the result have been the same? Who knows.

LomUmp:cool:

DG Wed Oct 24, 2007 09:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimpiano
What would be wrong with that premise is that it would change how that call was made in the previous 162 games of the year.

Just because the press box is full of sportswriters and the TV audience is bigger does not warrant changing the way the game is played in the post season. After all any call in the 9th inning of a tied regular season game could have affected what team even got to the post season.

The other problem with your argument is you cannot base a replay on the lack of any other action. Assuming a bad call you would suggest that if there is no other action then review it? But if the play has continuing and ensuing action after the call we ignore it?
If, MLB had IR, it could be used all year, not just playoffs. Pete was making the argument that continuing action would eliminate certain types of calls from being reviewed. I pointed out that Lofton call at 2B was not a situation where continuing action applied.

Are you keeping up with this discussion or coming in the middle without reviewing what has been said?

DG Wed Oct 24, 2007 09:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LomUmp
I think that the game would have been played differently by the Indians if they were tied and not behind. Would the result have been the same? Who knows.

LomUmp:cool:
You are kidding, right? What would the Indians have done differently? At the point in the game when this happened there was no argument. Had this happened in a late inning under same conditions I doubt that would have been the case.


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