Beating myself up about this one...
 

Last game of the day today. 2 strikes - check swing pitch that goes to the backstop. I call ball and wait for the catcher to appeal. He never does. Everyone yells throw to first, the catcher scrambles, gets the ball, and throws to first. Partner signals out!

Dang it, we huddled, my partner said he knew he went and didn't know that I didn't call it. Offensive coach was not too bad about it, he made some valid points towards me in a soft tone of voice which I bit my lip on because I knew he was right.

I'm assuming I should have just appealed it myself immediately, correct?

Like I said, I'm not too pleased about my gross miss.

If no one appeals, you call the pitch a ball, and no one else called the pitch a strike, why is the batter out? Do a pregame next time. You shouldn't appeal unless you need help and are blocked out. If you thought the batter offered, ring him up. Your initial call of ball is what muddied up the waters.

Use this verbal mechanic on a check swing.

"Strike, on the swing" or "Strike, on the pitch".

Then use the proper mechanic for which ever call you make.

2 strikes? Yeah, you should appeal yourself if you have ANY doubt.

Don't beat yourself up too much about it though. ;)

This wasn't the problem, ST. I didn't see a swing attempt - although BU said he easily went around. I was completely honed in on the pitch - curveball that was close to the outside corner. I could not rule if the batter swang because I didn't see the attempt that BU saw.

We did have a pregame - but next time I will add this sitch in.

I was waiting for the catcher to appeal because I figured he would, not because I thought he went. If I thought he went, I would have rang him up right there.

With 2 strikes, I am VERY liberal with going for help without being asked. Your situation is the reason why.

Curveball outside with 2 strikes? I am going for help if he even moved his shoulders a bit! ;)

But I got to thinking, how could you not have seen in your peripheral vision the batters attempt? If you were keeping your head still and moving only your eyes, you should have seen the shoulders move.

Did you turn your head with the pitch? If you don't know, you should really have somebody keep an eye on you to see if you are moving your head with the pitch and put an end to that bad habit in a hurry!

In a situation like you described, it is a good mechanic to go to your partner immediately for a check swing. This is a mechanic we use in higher level ball when you have a passed ball on a check swing of any kind. This will prevent a situation like you had, with a coach creating chaos, plus giving him the opportunity to take a stroll down memory lane. You do not need to wait for the catcher to ask you to check. This is also a good mechanic to employ on a 3/2 count on a check. Don't wait, go right away. Let it go and move on. It is how we learn

Read the OP. Tuss did not have a swing, called the pitch a ball, nobody asked for an appeal. the count should now be 1-2. BU threw him under the bus. We can talk all we want about when to go for an un-requested appeal, but that is not what happened. Me and BU are having a serious heart-to-heart after the game.

In a case like this, if I see the catcher take off for the ball and hear people yelling, that's a tipoff to me that I might have missed something obvious to everyone but me and this might be a good time to ask for help.

Been there, done that. Learned from it.

JJ

Ah, this is the magical part that seems to elude so many.

I am really trying to make sense of this?

If you did not see the attempt, which happens, then how in the world would you be expecting the catcher to appeal? Maybe he didn't see it either which seems obvious because he had to be told to throw to first.

Did your partner call him out for the attempt or for not reaching first before the throw. Was there a runner on first? How many outs? Did the batter have a right to go to first on a dropped third strike?

Missing the attempt is not all that bad, it happens.

But it is hard to give you our opinion, if were not given all the info.

Was BU calling "Out" for the B-R 3rd strike dropped, out on throw to 1B or 3Ks? If the first, then declare the count and reset the batter. If the second, then if BU has the authority, you have a K-Out. Why would you appeal if you have made a call of "Ball"?

I may be incorrect but I presumed that B/R did run (otherwise F2 would have a tag instead of a throw possibly); the OP has informed that he did not observe a swing which lead to "Why would you appeal if you have made a call of "Ball"?

Ok, I'll clarify.

I did not have a swing on the play. The batter half chucked at it, the pitch was very close on the corner and I was focused there. I balled it because I didn't see a swing, but clearly I just missed it.

BU called OUT, not strike. He thought that I had called a swing - said he looked at the ball going to the backstop (still he should have seen me not do anything... I don't know where he was coming from with this).

We huddled, he said he had a swing, which I told him that I never saw, but he told me it was pretty obvious. I told him that I don't see how we can end this without an out on the B/R.

The B/R never ran, the ball went to the backstop, the catcher retrieved it and threw to first.

Live and learn...

No appeal, no strike.

What's so hard to understand?

The both of you fabricated a strike out of thin air.

MLB also allows BU to "preemptively" call a strike (that is, rule so) if PU doesn't ask and BU would so have ruled.

I'd say that while BU didn't give the mechainc for such a call, he effectively made one.

While both PU and BU could have done better, the "right" call was made in the end.

Wrong.

It doesn't matter if no one asked for help; the base umpire should give it immediately in such situations. It's called a voluntary strike and is an excellent mechanic to employ.

When the batter can become a runner on a ball that gets away from the catcher, the base umpire rules on a check swing without waiting for the request for help from his plate partner. The MLBUM explains this, and it is an approved mechanic under OBR and NCAA. The problems it prevents is worth it.

Just to review the thread so I fully understand what should have / could have been done.

1) I could have appealed it myself immediately to BU if I suspected batter may have attempted

OR

2) BU could have taken the liberty of yelling "HE WENT" while signaling with his fist.

Either one of these would have been fine, correct?

There is, of course, another possibility, ie your partner was wrong on his assessment. Next time you have a checked swing on a 3rd strike not caught go to BU immediately, as soon as it is clear the catcher did not catch it.

his assessment of an attempted swing? probably not, considering even the offensive coach admitted it was obvious that he swung (clearly I just didn't see it in my peripheral vision).

or did you mean something else DG?

I'm not saying what you have posted is incorrect. It is an excellent mechanic when the situation calls for it. Gives the offense and defense adequate notice to run and make a play. In the play of the original post, unless the base ump gives his ruling immediately, an appeal from the defense to get a strike should have been made. The batter didn't even know a strike had been called on him, except in the base ump's mind. Saying, "I would have rung up him if you would have asked", doesn't cut it.

What I'm getting at is, no action by umpire or defense equals no strike. Unfortunately, every post seems to enhance the situation in the original topic.

No such help is needed in this situation. The base umpire should immediately rule whether he swung or not. This is exactly why a "voluntary strike" is a recommended and approved mechanic. I can tell you this much: umpires who utilize the voluntary strike will find themselves more highly rated in the long run.

#2) Not "could have" but should have for the base umpire.

No, I meant what I said. Nothing I had read so far convinced me your partner was correct. The offensive coach had some words for you, but admits the batter swung. So what did he say?

The coach basically said he was upset and questioned "well why not point right away?" He continued to say "How is my runner supposed to know if he has to run?" I really couldn't answer either of these questions because I knew he was right.

I told him my partner saw a swing, first base was tagged, and there was no way we could not have an OUT (In alot terser words). He then said "Well its obvious he swung, I'm fine with it, let's play".

The coach was fairly young (maybe in college) and appeared to have been around baseball long enough to know these things aren't life and death like other parents and coaches think.

Still, that doesn't make me feel any better about it.

Does that clear it up DG?

[QUOTE]I do not understand the aforementioned.

Why wait for F2 to appeal.

In YOUR Judgement B1 either offered at the pitch or he didn't.

If you are Unsure, then go to your partner right away.

Do not get in the habit of calling a pitch a ball (even though you are unsure) and then have holy h**l break loose afterwards awaiting for someone to appeal.

Pete Booth