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-   -   Pitcher taking signals. (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/38108-pitcher-taking-signals.html)

GarthB Wed Sep 12, 2007 01:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN
Any runner that gets picked off before F1 comes set deserves exactly what he gets.
Shucks. I guess we'uns ain't near as smart as them experts in Wisconsin.

Poor old backwards Spokane, we're the only area in which coaches teach runners to watch for when the pitcher is on the rubber. Stupidly, I guess, they figure when he's on the rubber he'll have to either step off or step towards the base, giving them time to get back. What they try to avoid is leaving the bag when the pitcher can just fling the ball over without any prepatory move.

I'll let them know that when they get picked off by a pitcher who is violating a rule...they had it coming.

jicecone Wed Sep 12, 2007 01:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve
There is no such thing as a true "Do Not Pitch" signal in FED or OBR. The FED has now made it a dead ball when this is signaled. When you hold up your palm toward the pitcher you have in effect called "Time" and killed the ball.

If the ball is already dead, then that's alright to do. When the ball is still alive, however, it is not recommended to hold your hand because you kill the ball and any possible play that might have occurred. For instance, the runner at first was just about to take off for second, but you killed the ball. Not good.

If a pitcher isn't paying attention as the batter is getting set in the box, I will tell him verbally to wait until the batter is set before starting his delivery.
Steve , I am well aware of the signal making the ball dead however, my response was to the post that said the batter was barely ready. I will make sure he is ready and verbally does not always do the trick from 60 ft away.

I agree one must use the signal discretionally however I AM, going to control the situation so as to prevent other problems.

CO ump Wed Sep 12, 2007 01:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthB
Tee:

I have no argument with the original reason for, and intent of, the rule. I would agree that it is a non-issue. As I said earlier, I have never felt the need to enforce this rule.

I do, however, have issue with the rule being used to allow a deceptive pick-off move.
I agree as well on both counts.

I have seen, on more than one occasion, pitchers leaning in, seemingly taking their sign while straddling the rubber. Whether intending to deceive or not, it certainly can be.
IF I were to balk this, I would not refer to the taking signs on the rubber rule, rather if asked, would refer to simulating a pitch while not on the rubber.
However, if I were doing my preventive umpiring thing I would not refer to simulating a pitch, instead I would tell F1 he can't take his sign from F2 from off the rubber.

Rich Wed Sep 12, 2007 01:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthB
Shucks. I guess we'uns ain't near as smart as them experts in Wisconsin.
You know what? I was right to give you a trial run on my ignore list. It's going permanent.

Rich Ives Wed Sep 12, 2007 01:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthB
Shucks. I guess we'uns ain't near as smart as them experts in Wisconsin.

Poor old backwards Spokane, we're the only area in which coaches teach runners to watch for when the pitcher is on the rubber. Stupidly, I guess, they figure when he's on the rubber he'll have to either step off or step towards the base, giving them time to get back. What they try to avoid is leaving the bag when the pitcher can just fling the ball over without any prepatory move.

I'll let them know that when they get picked off by a pitcher who is violating a rule...they had it coming.
I'd like to see someone just fling the ball to the base from a bent-over straddle - no turn and/or step.

Rich Wed Sep 12, 2007 01:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives
I'd like to see someone just fling the ball to the base from a bent-over straddle - no turn and/or step.
Maybe they are more flexible in Spoke-ann.

GarthB Wed Sep 12, 2007 01:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN
Maybe they are more flexible in Spoke-ann.

I'm surprised with your vast experience you haven't seen that move.

I've seen it with RH pitchers in contact and called it a balk several times in California, New York and, yep, in good ol' Spokane.

In fact, I called it in an MSBL game last Sunday.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Sep 12, 2007 03:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthB
I'm surprised with your vast experience you haven't seen that move.

I've seen it with RH pitchers in contact and called it a balk several times in California, New York and, yep, in good ol' Spokane.

In fact, I called it in an MSBL game last Sunday.

Garth:

And I am sorry to have to tell you, but you were wrong in California, New York, Spokane, and last Sunday.

MTD, Sr.

GarthB Wed Sep 12, 2007 04:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Garth:

And I am sorry to have to tell you, but you were wrong in California, New York, Spokane, and last Sunday.

MTD, Sr.
I know you are convinced I'm an idiot, but...

Excuse me?

You allow, in FED, FI, IN CONTACT with the rubber, to throw to first without stepping off or stepping to the base?

I know your sympathies lie with the pitcher, but, c'mon.

FED 6-4-2

If there is a runner or runners, any of the following acts by a pitcher while he is touching the pitching plate, is a balk:

(b) failing to step with the non-pivot footdirectly toward a base (occupied or unoccupied) when throwing or feinting there in an attempt to put out, or drive back a runner....

You may consider me wrong in three states. I'm convinced you're wrong in 48.

Wow.

jicecone Wed Sep 12, 2007 04:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Garth:

And I am sorry to have to tell you, but you were wrong in California, New York, Spokane, and last Sunday.

MTD, Sr.
Unless I am just misreading this whole last page here, are you really saying that a pitcher in contact with the plate is allowed to just fling the ball over to first without "no turn and/or step" and you consider this legal?

BigUmp56 Wed Sep 12, 2007 04:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Tyler
I'm betting not. Perhaps if some of you that so strongly defend never kicking dirt off the rubber would do so, then the runner could see if the pitcher was straddling the rubber.

Not a balk. Never has been and never will be.
I answered the question as to what Steve would do if the pitcher stepped to the rubber to deliver a quick pitch. It's certainly a balk, and how you can say otherwise is not surprising to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Tyler
BTW-6-2-5 doesn't apply to this situation. Straddling the rubber is not a motion associated with a pitch. The key word is motion. Standing still and straddling the rubber is not motion.

Not once have any of us mentioned we'd balk a pitcher for simply straddling the rubber. What we've said is that we would balk him for making a movement naturally associated with his pitch when he leans in while not on the rubber. So, ART - 6 does apply.



Tim.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Sep 12, 2007 08:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jicecone
Unless I am just misreading this whole last page here, are you really saying that a pitcher in contact with the plate is allowed to just fling the ball over to first without "no turn and/or step" and you consider this legal?

jicecone:

Now you are changing the play, of course the play you described at the end of you last sentence is a balk. Taking a sign from the catcher anybody else while not in contact with the pitcher's plate is not a balk. Two different plays which are not even remotely similiar.

MTD, Sr.

GarthB Wed Sep 12, 2007 09:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
jicecone:

Now you are changing the play, of course the play you described at the end of you last sentence is a balk. Taking a sign from the catcher anybody else while not in contact with the pitcher's plate is not a balk. Two different plays which are not even remotely similiar.

MTD, Sr.
No, he didn't change the play...you didn't read what you reponded to, even though you "quoted" it in your post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthB
I'm surprised with your vast experience you haven't seen that move.

I've seen it with RH pitchers in contact and called it a balk several times in California, New York and, yep, in good ol' Spokane.

In fact, I called it in an MSBL game last Sunday.
Then you wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTD

Garth:

And I am sorry to have to tell you, but you were wrong in California, New York, Spokane, and last Sunday.

MTD, Sr.

I think you were just too eager to dismiss anything I may have written.

justanotherblue Wed Sep 12, 2007 09:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthB
I know you are convinced I'm an idiot, but...

Excuse me?

You allow, in FED, FI, IN CONTACT with the rubber, to throw to first without stepping off or stepping to the base?

I know your sympathies lie with the pitcher, but, c'mon.

FED 6-4-2

If there is a runner or runners, any of the following acts by a pitcher while he is touching the pitching plate, is a balk:

(b) failing to step with the non-pivot footdirectly toward a base (occupied or unoccupied) when throwing or feinting there in an attempt to put out, or drive back a runner....

You may consider me wrong in three states. I'm convinced you're wrong in 48.

Wow.

Hmmmmm why not 50?? :D must be a new math thing... 50 -3 = 48

I would venture it's the same everywhere else they play baseball and actually know you must have distance and direction to any base when in contact with the rubber....

GarthB Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherblue
Hmmmmm why not 50??

I believe that two states do not use FED rules.


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