What to do?

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Maybe the coach knows whose call it is, maybe not. If I'm BU and my partner comes to me for a routine appeal of a tag-up at 3B, I'm going to call time and confer with him. I'm going to keep the coach away, and I'm going to tell him that it's his call and he needs to make it.

If the coach wants to whine that my partner missed something, maybe he has a point - but I'm neither going to show up my partner, make his call for him, nor deal with the coach for my partner's missed call.

And all this will take 45 seconds, so holding up the game is not a significant issue here.

Like it or not, you are already involved because your partner has come to you.

Your choice: Throw him back to the wolves or resolve the matter.

There have been times that letting your partner get an earful from the coach is a good learning tool, this was not one of them and I did what had to be done.

Less than 45 seconds.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Like it or not, you are already involved because your partner has come to you.

I don't understand how your involvement in this situation has now put you in charge of the situation.
You conference, you have nothing, he has nothing and it's his call to make. Very simple and undisputed mechanics.

Originally Posted by jicecone

Your choice: Throw him back to the wolves or resolve the matter.

How can you possibly consider letting UIC make his call as throwing him to the wolves?
It's actually much worse than throwing him to the wolves, you effectively emasculated him.

Originally Posted by jicecone

There have been times that letting your partner get an earful from the coach is a good learning tool, this was not one of them and I did what had to be done.

It's always a good learning tool, it's called consequences of actions!
Negative consequences tends to deter behavior which results in such consequences.
Getting an "earful from the coach" comes with the territory when you screw up. If UIC asked for you to fight his battle you may have mentioned it in your OP, important info, and everyone would agree that UIC needs to grow some before they can be kicked.
If UIC did not ask for your help in managing this call then I agree with a previous post that you're the one that screwed up by usurping your authority.

[/QUOTE]

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by CO ump

I don't understand how your involvement in this situation has now put you in charge of the situation.
You conference, you have nothing, he has nothing and it's his call to make. Very simple and undisputed mechanics.



How can you possibly consider letting UIC make his call as throwing him to the wolves?
It's actually much worse than throwing him to the wolves, you effectively emasculated him.



It's always a good learning tool, it's called consequences of actions!
Negative consequences tends to deter behavior which results in such consequences.
Getting an "earful from the coach" comes with the territory when you screw up. If UIC asked for you to fight his battle you may have mentioned it in your OP, important info, and everyone would agree that UIC needs to grow some before they can be kicked.
If UIC did not ask for your help in managing this call then I agree with a previous post that you're the one that screwed up by usurping your authority.

[/QUOTE]

"Original Thread:
What would you have done as BU in this situation where you know that your partner was not watching what he was supposed to be watching?"

I related a situation that happened to me, as experience. If it helps someone fine, if not they are free to take your advice (which I have not seen yet) or no advise at all.

Protocol or not, we happen to work as a team here, the fact that you have to get in a frenzy about your title out on that field shows me where your coming from.

This happen to work in this situation and I have been around long enough to understand when or not to use it. With or without you approval.

Thankyou.

[tibear]

Reminds me of a situation where I was working alone with runners on 2nd and 3rd and 1 out. Sharp line drive hit to left centre field so I run up the 3rd baseline to watch the tag up of runner at third, F7 comes in and makes a diving catch. F7 rolls on the ground comes up with the ball and throws home, I quickly look at 2nd and see the runner about 2 steps off second running to third. Hussle home to make the safe call at home, turn and make another safe call at third.

Defense then appeals first the runner at third (call safe) and then second(another safe). When the defensive manager comes out to discuss the call, I stop him and tell him, "Coach, on that play here are my priorities:
1) Did the fielder make the catch? I have to wait until he has clear possession AND voluntary release of the ball.
2) Did the runner at third base leave BEFORE the ball was TOUCHED by F7?
3) Did the runner at secondbase leave BEFORE the ball was TOUCHED by F7?
4) Get into position to make any safe/out calls on the bases.

Your left fielder make a heck of a diving catch. I saw F7 touch the ball and quickly confirmed the runner at third was still touching third base, then I had to wait until f7 completed his roll on the ground before confirming the catch. Then I looked at second and saw the runner there was a couple of steps off second running to third. Am I 100% positive the runner at second tagged up? No. But am I 100% certain that he didn't? No. As a result I have to call him safe."

I know generally speaking you wait to hear exactly what the coach is appealing but in this situation I felt that the best thing to do was completely explain my responsibilities on the play and it worked perfectly because all he said was "Sounds good to me." and went back to the bench.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by tibear

I know generally speaking you wait to hear exactly what the coach is appealing but in this situation I felt that the best thing to do was completely explain my responsibilities on the play and it worked perfectly because all he said was "Sounds good to me." and went back to the bench.

I don't have any problem with what you said, but I think it's still best to wait until the coach speaks.

Case in point. I had a game in which R3 non-maliciouolsy ran into F2 waiting to make a play at the plate. FED rules, so I had interference and an out, but no ejection. After discussing the play with both coaches, and telling both assistants to STFU (nicely), the game went on.

Next day, I had one of the teams again, and I called a balk on the pitcher. The head coach comes out and as he does, I mentally rehearse what I want to say about the balk. The coach gets close and says, "I just want you to know that you made a great call yesterday on that collision and handled the situation well." Then he turned and walked away.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by jicecone

"Original Thread:
What would you have done as BU in this situation where you know that your partner was not watching what he was supposed to be watching?"

I related a situation that happened to me, as experience. If it helps someone fine, if not they are free to take your advice (which I have not seen yet) or no advise at all.

My advice was to let the umpire who's responsible for the call make the call.

Originally Posted by jicecone

Protocol or not, we happen to work as a team here, the fact that you have to get in a frenzy about your title out on that field shows me where your coming from.

I'm not sure you know where I'm coming from. I called him UIC because you didn't give his name and that would be his title.
And I'd feel the same way if UIC made a call that was the responsibility of the BU. Either way it's wrong for many reasons.

Originally Posted by jicecone

This happen to work in this situation and I have been around long enough to understand when or not to use it. With or without you approval.

Just two questions
1. When you use this technique is it with or without the permission of your partner?

2. In a similar sitch, would you ever allow your partner to make the call and have to deal with the coach if the call was your responsibility?

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by CO ump

Just two questions
1. When you use this technique is it with or without the permission of your partner?

2. In a similar sitch, would you ever allow your partner to make the call and have to deal with the coach if the call was your responsibility?

1.This is not a technique, it is called experience. Having worked the league and previous games with that coach and also knowing the experience of my partner it was the correct action to take for that game and that moment. Again, when a member of THE TEAM (umpires) looks bad, the entire TEAM looks bad and then it goes up the line to the assignor and association.

And believe me, it is not all about me when I am on that field.

"With or without permission?" Again experience.

2. Twenty years ago and standing there like a deer in headlights, I might have.

Today, NO.

It would be a great world out there if all you had to do was read the manuals and spend all our time online to become a good official.

Unfortunately, it just doesn't work that way in the officiating world we work in. Game management, communication skills, reading between the lines and dealing with real world situations are things that come from experience ONLY.

Good questions though?
Thank you, and I DO NOT know it all.

[btdt]

What are you going to tell a coach in the future when the PU makes the call and the D coach starts yelling thats the BU call , yesterday/last week/ when ever it was the BU call!!!!!!! Whats with you guys, can't you get anything right.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by btdt

What are you going to tell a coach in the future when the PU makes the call and the D coach starts yelling thats the BU call , yesterday/last week/ when ever it was the BU call!!!!!!! Whats with you guys, can't you get anything right.

Never get into a debate about umpiring mechanics and whose call it is with a coach.

When a coach wants a ruling the umpires get to determine whose call it is, whether right or wrong. And even if the umpires get it wrong, that's too bad for the coach.

What - is he going to protest that the umpires aren't using proper mechanics? For all he knows, the umpires agreed, before the game, that the BU would take all tag-ups. Orthodox? Yes. Illegal? No.

I wouldn't allow coach to talk very long about whose call it is. That's him telling you how to do your job. You might as well tell him how stupid it was to attempt to steal 3rd base, with two outs, down by 5 runs, with his #3 hitter at the plate.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by btdt

What are you going to tell a coach in the future when the PU makes the call and the D coach starts yelling thats the BU call , yesterday/last week/ when ever it was the BU call!!!!!!! Whats with you guys, can't you get anything right.

I assume that's a rhetorical question, btdt. If not, what do you tell him when he claims that was a strike the last inning, or that was interference yesterday or that wasn't a balk last week?

This is not a major problem. Coaches whine. I've learned to expect it and live with it. If they eventually prove that they are too dumb to know when to stop, they get to whine from the parking lot.