Angel Hernandez new low...
 

Angel uses a modified GD with his hands tucked under his crotch and his elbows on his thighs. Watching the Yankees/Toronto game I saw a pitch that Angel called a ball, then rose, and I swear I saw the lineup card in his hands. It was confirmed when he then looked at the card. Next pitch, did the same thing...

I know its nitpicking, but giving away coaches hats, etc., MLB has to find a way to keep some of these guys in line. For the most part its self policed among the umpires but Angel takes some things to new levels.

Hernandez, and other lesser quality MLB umpires are still head and shoulders above you or me. He earned his way into the majors, despite what has been deleted in this thread. He, and other MLB umpires paid their dues in the minors, and are still better than the rest.

I sure would hate to be "kept in line." Sounds military to me, and baseball ain't the military.

We can suppose all day long.
I suppose F2 says, "they change the lineup, Blue?"
PU checks between pitches.

Something else?

:cool:

Well, I never did say I or anyone else not an MLB Umpire was better than Angel. I just posted what I've heard and what seems to be "well-known" among umpire circles. However, it's since been deleted by the P.C. Police.

I can guarantee that no Big League catcher would ever call an umpire "Blue"

We can all post what we want about Angel. However, I know for a fact several AAA reserve umpires look up to him quite a bit and regard him as one of the MLB umpires who truly wants to help younger umpires and does not feel threatened by them. In fact, I know one that has used the word "mentor" to describe him.

Second, MLB doesn't agree with the evaluations of Angel that most of us internet umpires have posted...as reflected by the number of post-season assignments he has received. Simply put...he's one of the best Ques-Tec umpires in MLB.

You all can post on and on about "being a great Ques-Tec umpire doesn't make you a great umpire" and on and on. However, being a great Ques-Tec umpire means a hell of a lot to the MLB front office, period. Every pro umpire knows it. I know how much some AAA reserve umpires sweat before a plate game in a Ques-Tec park: They know its a big evaluation!

Since 2000 he has worked: 2 Division Series; 4 LCS; and 2 World Series. Someone thinks he's doing a pretty good job.

help a old codger out here--WHY is ti a crime to look at a lineup card??

Some umpires think it's smittyish to look at your indicator more than once an inning. He (according to the OP) looked at a lineup card twice in one batter.

1. It seems odd that he would be holding a lineup card in hand during live ball action.
2. Even more odd to be looking at it between pitches.

If it had info needed pertinent to the situation then call time and get the issue straightened out. If not, then leave it in your pocket and get the rookies autograph between innings.
A crime? no
Something to emulate? certainly not.

No, he'd use his name, "Angel". My bad.

Useless........:rolleyes:

thank you don thats helpful info (serious, no joke here). I see that lookin at a card was a big deal..,,its a new prespective for me.

Javy Lopez not count?

what game and what inning in this series did this happen.
The game can be researched on MLB and I would like to be able to view it and see if what you say happened, happened.

What are you trying to say?

I saw this. It was late in Tuesday's game, maybe the 8th inning? Certainly after Clemens was ejected because I tuned in just after that.

The description was accurate. A batter was at the plate, Hernandez had the lineup card in his hand. He looked at it after the first pitch, then again after the second and finally he put it away and took his indicator out his pocket. Only umpires probably noticed anyhting strange about that.

As a sidenote, Hernandez seems to be questionned more than most umpires. For example, there were a few strike calls that were on the corner and probably nothing would have been said if Tim McLelland had called them strikes. But when Angel is in umpiring, it seems you get more grumbling about calls that are borderline. My two cents.

Again this is very strange, as Ques-Tec proves Hernandez to be one of the very best ball and strike umpires in the league.

Bottom of the eighth, first two pitches to the first batter.

Just a guess, but he probably was verifying lineup changes from between innings, and was checking the batting order.

Not a big deal. You minimized it when Tuss brought it up, I just brought the perspective that it was an unneeded distraction and unprofessional.

If you think holding the card in hand and looking at it between pitches is helpful and a good way to manage the game then say so.

didnt say that butim not going to crucifya guy in public for lookin at a lineup card twice for a totalof prolly 10 secs in the coarse of a 3 hr ballgame. sorry get yourraw meat somewhere else.

Pointing out unusual behavior that is improper is neither crucifying or carniverous.
Is Angel your little brother or what?

(Edited to help SDS understand toungue in cheek comment)


Because Larry Hernandez's I mean Johnson's comments were so intense regarding my mild aversion to Angel's lineup card infatuation,
I asked a toungue in cheek question to point out that his response may have bordered on overkill.

Johnson...Hernandez...hmmmm. I'm guessing not.

Reviewed the game on MLB and Hernandez did have the line-up card in his hand on the first two pitches of the bottom of the 8th, using the time between pitches to mark changes.

Why this is a big deal is beyond me.

Yes, beyond me as well. Thank you for the explanation.

It's not a BIG deal.

It is

1. A method of game administration that no one teaches or endorses
2. A method of game administration that any evaluator would make a critical comment on.
3. A method of game administration that takes the concentration and focus away from the task at hand.
4. An oddity worth noting. I personally have never seen any umpire at any level do their paperwork between pitches and during live ball action.

Whether or not Angels actions in this case adversely affected the game is not the issue, he should have spent the extra 10 or 15 seconds before the inning started, finnished his between inning responsibilities and move on.

This isn't questioning one of the god's of umpiring judgement calls. It's game Ad. 101

Is there anyone on the forum that does their paperwork during live ball action?

We all like quick games.
 

Perhaps Mr. Hernandez didn't want to have the first 15 seconds of the inning having thousands of folks in the stands and the television audience waiting for him to do his paperwork.

Is there anyone on this forum who routinely has the timing of his actions and his subsequent evaluations influenced by billion-dollar television contracts?

If it helps any, he did it again in the 9th inning.

I understand that he had to make changes, but a pitching change? Do it between innings? A different batter was coming up? Change it after the batter. To hold a card while calling pitches, very strange.

What if he had to use a check swing or foul tip mechanic?

It's not THAT big of a deal, but its noteworthy as just another thing an MLB ump does (non mechanic wise) that we shouldn't be doing.

I see it is a big deal for you.

Angel Hernandez's accomplishments as a professional umpire are a matter of record.

Please let us know when you get your World Series assignment.

And I confess to having fiddled with lineup cards several times during live ball action.

I feel better knowing that the best of the best do it, too.

I thought that the new system rotates all MLB umps through the playoffs. Not a merit-based assignment any longer.

Post season assignments in MLB are based on performance during the year.

Not sure how reliable this is, but it's something...

http://www.mlb4u.com/leagueinfo.php

The old system did as you suggested. The new system has a strong component of merit. You have them switched.

Thanks for the update. I'm glad they're moving in the right direction.

Next step: after every season, take the worst 3 MLB umps and demote them to AAA (or retire them), and take the best 3 AAA umps and promote them to MLB.

Ergo all MLB umps have perfect mechanics, perfect judgement, perfect discernment and are therefore worthy of emulation in everything they do.


If it's the right thing to do then no confession is needed.
You are implying it's the right way to manage the game and your paperwork aren't you?
The next time an evaluator asks you why you're doing paperwork during live ball action, I'm sure he'll give you bonus points once you tell him Angel does it too.

Wait a minute. You are the same person that claimed there was nothing wrong with brushing off a bag with a plate brush. Now this is a problem? The very same reason looking at your paperwork during live ball play is the same reason you do not brush the base off with a plate brush. Now the reason we see a lot of things at the ML level that a good umpire at the amateur level would never do is because no one is going to fire them for something like this. For all you know he might have been talked to about this. But the Major League Umpire Union is one of the strongest in pro sports and this is why they keep guys around that have clearly lost their fast ball or do not keep up with standards that got them there. But if a D1 umpire was doing this on TV, it is very possible that he might not only get talked to, he might be downgraded which could lead to less assignments and ultimately being fired.

Peace

thank you mr Rutlege for pointing this out :)

As distasteful as brushing a bag between innings may be to you, it does not equate to the possible problems created by doing paperwork during live ball action.
I agree that both violate the unwritten umpire code of behavior, but one has possible on field consequences while the other does not.

So we're in agreement

I think both look stupid. I did not see what was described, but your same justification for what you feel looks dumb is the very same reason I think brushing a base off (which you can easily see with dirt on it BTW) and using a object that is designed only for the plate (hence the name "plate brush").

Actually I do not think we are at all. Keep thinking we agree if it makes you happy.

Peace

I don't remember saying it looks dumb, in fact looks has nothing to do with it. Doing paperwork during live ball action can only lead to problems. It's a practical issue. Much like brushing the base the one and only time in my life I did it was a practical issue.

I didn't ask you to jump in on this you did it on your own accord. Now that you have, despite how it's going to taint your rep by agreeing with me the facts are the facts jack.

If you think doing paperwork during live ball action is wrong then we agree. You made your opinion on that clear in a previous post.
And yes I'm ecstatic!!

Don, do you actually read what people say? I did not comment about what you said. I am saying it looks stupid for both actions. If you want to write down something you hold up the game and get your information together. I think brushing off a base looks stupid because it is not practical. The bases are surrounded by dirt. You are not going to be able to dust off every piece of dirt surrounding the base. And if you dust off the dirt one time, you will be doing it constantly. It is not necessary to dust off a base (with a plate brush) as it is not necessary to look at a lineup card while the game is going on. They both look stupid and both are not practical. And I am the one saying this, not you. ;)


I just wanted to point out a complete contradiction on your part. At least I am consistent. I think both look stupid and both can affect how you are evaluated. You cannot understand why someone might feel both look dumb and you do not understand in at least one of the cases why brushing off the base might have similar consequences.

Good for you.

Peace